Einstein's Equivalence Principle: Freely Falling Local Frames

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around Einstein's equivalence principle (EP) and its implications for freely falling local frames, particularly in the context of special relativity versus general relativity. Participants explore the nature of inertial frames, the effects of spacetime curvature, and the relevance of the equivalence principle when considering gravity.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that freely falling local frames can be considered inertial frames, as they are subject only to gravity and thus experience no relative acceleration.
  • Others argue that the presence of spacetime curvature, due to matter and energy, allows for relative acceleration between freely falling objects, challenging the notion that all local frames are equivalent in this regard.
  • A participant notes that discussing free fall in the context of special relativity may render the equivalence principle irrelevant, as it pertains to the transition from flat to curved spacetime.
  • Another participant emphasizes that special relativity does not incorporate gravity, highlighting that the equivalence principle is more relevant when considering general relativity and its implications for gravitational interactions.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the applicability of the equivalence principle in the context of special relativity, with some suggesting it is relevant while others contend it is not. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of spacetime curvature on the equivalence principle.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the limitations of their discussion, particularly in distinguishing between the frameworks of special and general relativity, and the assumptions regarding spacetime curvature and gravitational effects.

Jazzyrohan
Messages
32
Reaction score
0
Einstein's equivalence principle states that:
The sets of inertial frames in the real world that correspond to (portions of) the ideal set of inertial frames discussed in special relativity consist of freely falling local frames.

In other words,can we say that since all the local frames are in free fall,i.e subject only to gravity so there is no relative acceleration between them and hence they are moving with constant velocities(which can be relative)?
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Jazzyrohan said:
Einstein's equivalence principle states that:
The sets of inertial frames in the real world that correspond to (portions of) the ideal set of inertial frames discussed in special relativity consist of freely falling local frames.

This is not the usual way of stating the EP, but it seems ok.

Jazzyrohan said:
an we say that since all the local frames are in free fall,i.e subject only to gravity so there is no relative acceleration between them

The fact that all of the local inertial frames are in free fall does not mean there is no relative acceleration between them. That would be true in the flat spacetime of Special Relativity, but the actual spacetime we live in is not flat; it is curved, because of the presence of matter and energy. And spacetime curvature means that there can be relative acceleration between objects that are in free fall.
 
PeterDonis said:
This is not the usual way of stating the EP, but it seems ok.
The fact that all of the local inertial frames are in free fall does not mean there is no relative acceleration between them. That would be true in the flat spacetime of Special Relativity, but the actual spacetime we live in is not flat; it is curved, because of the presence of matter and energy. And spacetime curvature means that there can be relative acceleration between objects that are in free fall.
Sorry I forgot to state that I sm talking about free fall in the context of special relativity only.Thanks for the reply.I suppose I will get to study about curved spacetime more in General Relativity,right? Currently I am reading Introduction to special relativity by Wolfgang Rindler.
 
Jazzyrohan said:
I forgot to state that I sm talking about free fall in the context of special relativity only.

But if that's the case, the equivalence principle is irrelevant. The only point of even thinking about the equivalence principle is to understand to what extent the flat spacetime physics of special relativity can still be used if spacetime is actually curved, as it is in general relativity. If you're only thinking about flat spacetime, there is no equivalence principle because there's nothing for flat spacetime to be locally equivalent to.
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: PeroK
The important point is that special relativity is explicitly about everything except gravity. You cannot have gravity within special relativity. That was Einstein's great insight in 1907. After that it took him almost 10 years to find the complete relativistic theory of the gravitational interaction, called "General Relativity Theory".
 
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: m4r35n357

Similar threads

  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 36 ·
2
Replies
36
Views
5K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
  • · Replies 26 ·
Replies
26
Views
2K
  • · Replies 44 ·
2
Replies
44
Views
6K
Replies
16
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 36 ·
2
Replies
36
Views
5K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 122 ·
5
Replies
122
Views
11K