Find the mass of m1 on an inclined pulley system

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The problem involves two masses, ##m_1## and ##m_2##, connected by a massless cord over a frictionless pulley on a rough inclined ramp. The objective is to derive an expression for the mass ##m_1##, given that ##m_2## accelerates downward with a specified acceleration ##a##.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the application of free body diagrams for both masses, questioning the alignment of axes and the components of gravitational force acting on ##m_1##. There is an exploration of the relationship between tension and acceleration, with some participants suggesting corrections to initial assumptions about forces.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with each other's reasoning, offering corrections and clarifications regarding the forces acting on the masses. There is an ongoing examination of the free-body diagrams and the implications of gravitational components on the net forces. No consensus has been reached yet, and multiple interpretations of the forces are being explored.

Contextual Notes

Some participants note potential errors in the initial setup, particularly regarding the components of gravitational force acting on ##m_1## and the direction of tension in relation to the forces acting on ##m_2##. The discussion reflects a need for careful consideration of the physical setup and the assumptions made in the analysis.

IcyDuck
Messages
4
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement


Two masses ##m_1## and ##m_2## are connected by a massless cord and a pulley, on a rough ramp, tilted at angle ∅ The pulley is massless and frictionless. The coefficient of kinetic friction between the ramp and m1 is ##μ_k.## Derive an expression for ##m_1,## given that ##m_2## accelerates downward with acceleration of magnitude ##a.##

Diagram:
mEv7VFo.png

Homework Equations


##F=ma##
##g=9.8 m/s^2##

The Attempt at a Solution


I drew my free body diagrams for each mass.
For ##m_1,## the axes are aligned with the ramp, not the ground. ##m_1g## is broken up into its ##x## and ##y## components: ##m_1gsin∅## and ##m_1gcos∅,## respectively. Tension ##T## is larger than frictional force ##F_f## since the object is accelerating up the ramp despite the frictional force in the opposite direction.

For ##m_2,## the axes are aligned with the ground with the up direction being the positive ##y## direction. The weight ##mg## is larger than the tension ##T## due to its downward acceleration.

I think that the tension will be the same everywhere in the rope, so ##T_{m_1}=T_{m_2}.##

With regard to ##m_1:##
##T=m_2a##
##F_{net}=T-F_f,##
or
##F_{net}=m_2a-μ_km_1gcos∅.##

With regard to ##m_2:##
##F_{net}=m_2g-T,##
or
##F_{net}=m_2g-m_2a.##

That's about as far as I got. It's not much of a start. I don't know what steps I need to take towards isolating ##m_1.##
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
Where did you get T = m2a from?
For the net force on m1, you forgot the component of gravity acting down the ramp.
 
I derived tension ##T## by applying ##F=ma## and getting ##T=ma## since ##T## is a force. I saw that since the mass of ##m_2## is given and its downward acceleration ##a## is given and on the same axis as ##T## (the ##y## axis), I could plug those into the force equation and get the tension.

And yeah, I can see what you're saying about the gravity. Since ##m_1##'s motion is completely horizontal, it should actually be ##F_{net_{m_1}}=m_2a−μ_km_1gsin∅.## Not sure how I managed to mix up sin and cos, sorry.
 
Have another look at your free-body diagrams.
The one for m2 should have the tension pointing up and the weight down.
The sum of both of these forces will be m2a.
So, T = m2a is not correct.

The motion of m1 may be horizontal with respect to the ramp, but it's not horizontal with respect to the ground, so there is a component of the weight acting to pull the mass back down the incline.
 
Ok, so ##T+m_2g=m_2a,##
or
##T=m_2a-m_2g.##

So, correct me if I'm misunderstanding what you're saying, does that mean that ##mg_x## should actually be subtracted, making ##F_{net_{m_1}}=T-F_f-mg_x##?
 
Remember that T and the weight are in opposite directions, so
m2g - T = m2a
( my y-axis points down here )

Your expression for Fnet for m1 is correct.
When you equate this with m1a, be careful with the signs.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 18 ·
Replies
18
Views
2K
  • · Replies 22 ·
Replies
22
Views
2K
Replies
25
Views
3K
  • · Replies 30 ·
2
Replies
30
Views
4K
Replies
44
Views
4K
  • · Replies 29 ·
Replies
29
Views
4K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
1K
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K