Fluid Dynamics: Static Thrust on a Conv-Div Nozzle

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the static thrust generated by a convergent-divergent nozzle, focusing on the application of fluid dynamics principles, particularly the conservation of momentum and pressure forces. Participants explore their understanding of the problem and the relevant equations involved.

Discussion Character

  • Homework-related
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests using a control volume approach to calculate net thrust, but questions why their initial equation does not yield the correct answer.
  • Another participant notes that the thrust must consider forces within the nozzle and the acceleration of the fluid, indicating that pressure alone does not determine thrust.
  • A participant expresses confusion about the role of thrust in the conservation of momentum equation, questioning how thrust arises and whether it contradicts momentum conservation.
  • Clarification is provided that thrust is related to the acceleration of the fluid, which in turn affects the rocket's motion, referencing Newton's third law.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying levels of understanding regarding the application of thrust in the context of momentum conservation. There is no consensus on the correct approach to the problem, and multiple interpretations of the thrust component remain evident.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight potential misunderstandings related to the definitions of thrust and the forces acting within the nozzle. The discussion reveals that assumptions about pressure and fluid dynamics may not fully capture the complexities of the problem.

Kushwoho44
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Homework Statement
convdiv.png


The attempt at a solution

Hi all, I am tasked with finding the static thrust generated by this convergent-divergent nozzle. The stagnation pressure is known the inlet.

Now, personally, I would've thought drawn a control volume around the entire nozzle. And then said:

Net_Thurst = Pressure_inlet *A_inlet -Pressure_outlet*A_outlet.

Now, this does not yield the correct answer. I am not asking for the answer, rather, what is wrong with my understanding of the problem?

Thanks for the help!
 
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Kushwoho44 said:
Net_Thurst = Pressure_inlet *A_inlet -Pressure_outlet*A_outlet.

p0c > pc & Ain > Aout → that would mean the net thrust would push the rocket backwards. You have to take into account the forces in the jacket and the acceleration of the fluid.

Using the control volume like suggested in the hint makes it easier to solve the problem (think about the pressure distribution on the surface of the control volume).
 
Okay, that makes sense.

I have, to this far, thought of the pressure as driving the fluid flow.

Thus, I would've thought that the conservation of momentum equation applies:

p1A + p1A*V1^2 = p2A + p2A*V2^2

Though, it seems that we need to introduce a 'thrust' component. I don't really understand the physics of this. Where does the thrust component evolve from? And doesn't it violate the conservation of momentum equation.
 
Kushwoho44 said:
Okay, that makes sense.

I have, to this far, thought of the pressure as driving the fluid flow.

Thus, I would've thought that the conservation of momentum equation applies:

p1A + p1A*V1^2 = p2A + p2A*V2^2

Though, it seems that we need to introduce a 'thrust' component. I don't really understand the physics of this. Where does the thrust component evolve from? And doesn't it violate the conservation of momentum equation.

Sorry, a misunderstanding - maybe a language problem - I thought with thrust you ment the force pushing the rocket forwards.

If you make a FBD of the fluid in the nozzle you also have borders at the non-horizontal walls of the nozzle and the "diffusor", which you need for the sum of the forces in horizontal direction - so your equation is not complete.

The thrust will be generated by the acceleration of the fluid, i.e. a force affected it. The same force, but in the opposite direction accelerates the rocket (Newton's 3rd law). So I think that is what you ment with the equation in your first post, which I obviously misread.
 

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