Flux in different coordinate systems

In summary, the conversation discusses the use of tensors in mathematics and physics, specifically in relation to vector spaces and co-ordinate systems. Tensors are used to describe physical quantities and their transformations between different co-ordinate systems, and have practical applications in fields such as electromagnetism. The conversation also mentions the concept of isomorphism in relation to tensors and its role in capturing the description of these transformations.
  • #1
Wox
70
0
I have an electromagnetic field with a Poynting vector that has the following form in spherical coordinates:
$$\bar{P}(R,\phi,\theta)=\frac{f(\phi,\theta)}{R^2}\bar{e}_{r}$$
The exact nature of [itex]f(\phi,\theta)[/itex] is not known. Suppose I measure the flux of this vector field by a flat area detector. The pixel values of an image acquired by such a detector are given by
$$I_{\text{pixel}}(x,y)=\iint_{\text{pixel}} \bar{P} \cdot \bar{\text{d}S}=\iint_{\text{pixel}} \left\|\bar{P}(x,y)\right\|\cos(\alpha(x,y))\ \text{d}x\text{d}y$$
where [itex]\alpha[/itex] the (known) angle between detector surface and Poynting vector and [itex]XY[/itex] the detector plane in the detector reference frame [itex]XYZ[/itex] for which we know the relation to the [itex]\bar{P}[/itex] coordinate system. From this I want to know the pixel values as would have been measured when the detector had another orientation and position with respect to the origin of [itex]\bar{P}[/itex]
$$\begin{bmatrix}x'\\y'\\z'\\1 \end{bmatrix} =L\cdot\begin{bmatrix}x\\y\\z\\1\end{bmatrix}$$
where [itex]L[/itex] a know composition of rotations and translations or even for a spherical detector. How can I do this? The Jacobian can be used when the transformation only involved the detector plane [itex]XY[/itex]. However this is not the case and I can also not use the divergence theorem, since we don't have a closed surface. Any ideas on how to approach this?
 
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  • #2
Hey Wox.

Have you encountered unfixed co-ordinate system mathematics and calculus through tensors?
 
  • #3
I'm not sure what you mean by "unfixed co-ordinate system mathematics". You mean vector spaces without choosing a basis?

As for tensors, this is what I know: a tensor product of two vector spaces [itex]V[/itex] and [itex]W[/itex] both over field [itex]K[/itex] is a pair [itex](T,\otimes)[/itex] where [itex]T[/itex] a vector space over [itex]K[/itex] and [itex]\otimes\colon V\times W\rightarrow T[/itex] a bilinear map with the property that for any bilinear map [itex]B_{L}\colon V\times W\rightarrow X[/itex] with [itex]X[/itex] a vector space over [itex]K[/itex], there exists a unique linear map [itex]F_{\otimes}\colon T\rightarrow X[/itex] so that [itex]B_{L}=F_{\otimes}\circ\otimes[/itex]. Furthermore if [itex](T,\otimes)[/itex] and [itex](T',\otimes')[/itex] are two tensor products of [itex]V[/itex] and [itex]W[/itex] then there exists a unique isomorphism [itex]F\colon T\rightarrow T'[/itex] such that [itex]\otimes'=F\circ\otimes[/itex]. Although I understand what all this says (I know vector spaces, bilinear maps, linear maps, bijective linear maps = vector space isomorphisms), I don't really grasp the idea or the practical implications. But any suggestions you have are welcome, if I don't understand I'll try to learn it.
 
  • #4
The application physically is widespread:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Application_of_tensor_theory_in_physics

It has to do with what you are saying, but basically you have identities that deal with things like del, grad, differentiation and integration in arbitrary co-ordinate systems by relating them back to Euclidean since we have a developed theory in R^n.

The isomorphism is the best attribute that captures the description but instead of just thinking about vector spaces, add the results of calculus to that and you have a good idea of how its used.
 

Related to Flux in different coordinate systems

1. What is flux in different coordinate systems?

Flux is a measure of the flow of a physical quantity through a surface. In different coordinate systems, this measure may vary due to differences in the orientation and shape of the surface.

2. How does flux change in different coordinate systems?

Flux is dependent on the orientation and shape of the surface, so it will change in different coordinate systems as these factors change. For example, a surface with a large area will have a higher flux than a smaller surface in the same coordinate system.

3. What is the difference between flux in Cartesian and polar coordinates?

Cartesian coordinates use x, y, and z axes to define a point in space, while polar coordinates use a distance and angle from a fixed point. The difference in these coordinate systems can affect the calculation of flux due to the varying shape and orientation of the surface being measured.

4. How is flux calculated in different coordinate systems?

In Cartesian coordinates, flux is calculated using the dot product of the vector field and the surface normal vector. In polar coordinates, the surface is divided into small elements with each element having its own surface normal vector, and the flux is calculated by summing the contributions of each element.

5. What are some real-world applications of flux in different coordinate systems?

Flux is used in various fields such as physics, engineering, and fluid mechanics to study the flow of quantities such as electric fields, magnetic fields, and fluid flow. It is also used in weather forecasting to measure the flow of air or water in different coordinate systems.

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