How to express ωₙ in terms of only mass (m) and stiffness (k)?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around expressing the natural frequency, ωₙ, in terms of mass (m) and stiffness (k) within the context of a mechanical system involving pulleys and masses. Participants explore various approaches to derive this expression, questioning the underlying principles and assumptions involved.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning, Problem interpretation, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to simplify the relationship between force and displacement using Hooke's law but struggles to isolate ωₙ in terms of m and k. Other participants inquire about the meaning of ##\delta_{st}## and its relevance to the problem, suggesting the use of free body diagrams and Newton's laws. There is also mention of using energy methods to derive the natural frequency.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, offering different methods to approach the derivation of ωₙ. Some have suggested using energy conservation principles, while others are focused on applying Newton's laws. There is no explicit consensus on the best approach, but multiple lines of reasoning are being explored.

Contextual Notes

There are references to specific terms like ##\delta_{st}##, which may require clarification. The discussion also highlights the need for a free body diagram and the constraints imposed by the pulley system, indicating that certain assumptions about the system's configuration are under consideration.

Rae
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Summary: How to express ωₙ in terms of only mass (m) and stiffness (k)? I tried doing it with F=kx but it is out of my ability to simplify it to only m and k.

Screenshot 2022-05-17 155003.png


Here is my approach:
Screenshot 2022-05-17 175502.png
 
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Tell me what is ##\delta_{st}##?
You need (a free body diagram and) Newton's law for each mass, and the constraint on the positions (and hence accelerations) engendered by the pulley system.
 
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hutchphd said:
Tell me what is ##\delta_{st}##?
You need (a free body diagram and) Newton's law for each mass, and the constraint on the positions (and hence accelerations) engendered by the pulley system.
From what i was taught in my lecture classes, ##\delta_{st}## means the initial displacement that the spring has before we displace it further by x. I am not sure if it is needed in this case.

Is my free body diagram correct for the 2 identical masses?
Screenshot 2022-05-17 194156.png
 
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Although you can solve this by finding the force equations and considering the tension in the string etc, there is a much simpler way by using energy methods if you can manage to introduce a generalised coordinate ##x## that describes the position of the system and write down the kinetic and potential energies as depending on ##x##. Generally, if the total energy is on the form ##E = (\mu \dot x^2 + k (x-a)^2)/2 + C##, where ##C##, ##\mu##, ##k##, and ##a## are constants, then the natural frequency is given by ##\omega^2 = k/\mu##.
 
Good. Write Newton's Law for body 1 and for body 2 (along the direction of travel for each). Eliminate T. Use constraint to eliminate coordinate 1 (or 2 if you prefer). Choose ##\delta_{st}## to give the correct static limit.
This should now look like an oscillator diff. equation.
Perhaps you can use energy conservation to get to the same answer more easilly, but you should be able to do either, I reckon.
 
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