Invariant Spacetime Interval for Classical Spacetime

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of an invariant spacetime interval in classical (non-relativistic) spacetime, particularly in the context of Galilean transformations. Participants explore whether a corresponding invariant spacetime interval exists and the implications for understanding classical space and time as a unified framework.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that there cannot be an invariant spacetime interval in classical spacetime due to the nature of Galilean transformations, which leave the time coordinate unchanged while altering the space coordinates.
  • Others propose that it is still possible to conceptualize classical space and time as a single spacetime, referencing literature on the geometrization of Newtonian gravity and Galilean relativity.
  • A participant clarifies that in classical spacetime, instead of a single spacetime metric, there are separate time and spatial metrics, which complicates the notion of distance between spacetime points.
  • There is a discussion about the limitations of defining distances between arbitrary spacetime points, with some suggesting that one can only define distances between points on the same time slice or the same position slice.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the existence of an invariant spacetime interval in classical spacetime. While some argue against it, others maintain that a conceptual framework exists, leading to an unresolved discussion regarding the nature of spacetime metrics in classical physics.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that Galilean relativity provides an absolute global time function, which leads to different implications for simultaneity compared to special relativity, but the discussion remains focused on the definitions and properties of spacetime intervals.

AcidRainLiTE
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In special relativity we have the invariant spacetime interval ds2 = dx2 - c2dt2. If we think about classical (non-relativistic) space and time as one spacetime in which the transformation between reference frames is given by the Galilean transformation, is there a corresponding spacetime interval that is invariant (the same when computed in any reference frame)?
 
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AcidRainLiTE said:
If we think about classical (non-relativistic) space and time as one spacetime in which the transformation between reference frames is given by the Galilean transformation, is there a corresponding spacetime interval that is invariant (the same when computed in any reference frame)?

No. There can't be, because the Galilean transformation leaves the time coordinate unchanged but changes the space coordinates. In other words, a Galilean transformation can change ##dx^2## between two given events, but always leaves ##dt^2## unchanged.
 
So then is it not possible to think of classical space and time as a single spacetime since we cannot assign a definite meaning to the distance between spacetime points (independent of reference frames)?
 
AcidRainLiTE said:
So then is it not possible to think of classical space and time as a single spacetime since we cannot assign a definite meaning to the distance between spacetime points (independent of reference frames)?

Actually it is possible and there is a lot of literature on the geometrization of Newtonian gravity and Galilean relativity. The difference is that instead of a single space-time metric, one has a time metric and a spatial metric which are separate from one another.

EDIT: And the reason for this is that Galilean relativity offers an absolute global time function that foliates space-time by the same simultaneity planes for all inertial observers whereas in SR the simultaneity planes foliating space-time are relativized to inertial observers.
 
Last edited:
WannabeNewton said:
The difference is that instead of a single space-time metric, one has a time metric and a spatial metric which are separate from one another.

So while there is some notion of distance in classical spacetime, you cannot speak of a distance between two arbitrary spacetime points, right? You can only speak of the distance between points on the same time slice (this would be the spatial metric) or points at the same position slice (this would be the time-metric). You cannot speak of the distance of points on different time slices at different positions. Is this correct?
 

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