Pulley angular velocity problem

In summary: S, this gives a v upwards for the right side and v downward for the left side. This is the velocity by rotation, but the pulley also translates with a velocity v. This the...
  • #1
jeffrey
13
2
Homework Statement
Suppose mass mL has a constant vertical speed v while hoisting, block B is stationary. In that case, calculate the rotational speeds ωQ, ωR and ωS of discs Q, R and S expressed in v and D. Define clockwise as positive
Relevant Equations
v=omega*radius
length_a+length_b= constant
Further given:
- every beam is infinite stiff
- pulleys are massless
- cables don't stretch, no slip, and frictionless.
-Every pulley has a diameter D except pulley Q. Pulley Q has diameter 0.5*D

So what I don't understand is how to calculate/determine the velocity at R and S. Can someone help me or send me into the right direction? I know from the answers that the velocity at R is 2v and at C is 1v, but I don't understand why.

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  • #2
I would start by relating the total length of the bottom cable to the height of the bottom platform. The rate of change of length of the cable will be the rate it is being taken up by ##T_2## and give you rotation rate of Q.
 
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  • #3
Consider that each vertical section of string may have a different velocity.
What is the velocity of the leftmost? What about the one between S and R?
 
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  • #4
haruspex said:
Consider that each vertical section of string may have a different velocity.
What is the velocity of the leftmost? What about the one between S and R?
First of all thank you for your response.
I'd say that the leftmost velocity is equal to 0, because that part is connected to the block and doesn't move.
But for the one between S and R I would guess that one is 2v, because it's kind of the same as a 'wheel without slip' situation. The center of mass of S moves with velocity v downward so the part between S and R is 2v.
 
  • #5
jeffrey said:
First of all thank you for your response.
I'd say that the leftmost velocity is equal to 0, because that part is connected to the block and doesn't move.
But for the one between S and R I would guess that one is 2v, because it's kind of the same as a 'wheel without slip' situation. The center of mass of S moves with velocity v downward so the part between S and R is 2v.
Yes, except that it says "hoisting", so C is rising.
So, how about the rest of the vertical sections?
 
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  • #6
haruspex said:
Yes, except that it says "hoisting", so C is rising.
So, how about the rest of the vertical sections?
I'd say also 2v for all other vertical ropes, but my guess is based on intuition.
 
  • #7
jeffrey said:
I'd say also 2v for all other vertical ropes, but my guess is based on intuition.
Think through why it is that the rope on the left of pulley S is stationary but the one on its right is rising at 2v. Does the same principle apply at any other pulley?
 
  • #8
haruspex said:
Think through why it is that the rope on the left of pulley S is stationary but the one on its right is rising at 2v. Does the same principle apply at any other pulley?
Is it because pulley S performs a translational motion as well as a rotation?
Pulley R (and all other pulleys in the same row) on the other hand only perform a rotational motion and no tranlational motion. But because the rope between S and R is the same that rope moving with a velocity of 2v.
If the rope left of pulley R moves with 2v then the rope right of R should also move with 2v.
The rope between R and the pulley with the mass should also be 2v then, because it is the same piece of rope. But the pulley with the mass does move upwards so left of this pulley the rope has a speed of v and right of it the speed is 3v (I don't think that this part is correct ).

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  • #9
jeffrey said:
the pulley with the mass does move upwards so left of this pulley the rope has a speed of v and right of it the speed is 3v
Closer... but it went from zero to 2v in going around pulley S, not from zero to v.
Think about the velocities of these three points: the leftmost point on S, the centre of S, and the rightmost point of S. What is the relationship?
 
  • #10
haruspex said:
Closer... but it went from zero to 2v in going around pulley S, not from zero to v.
Think about the velocities of these three points: the leftmost point on S, the centre of S, and the rightmost point of S. What is the relationship?
hmm do you mean v=omega*r?
 
  • #11
jeffrey said:
hmm do you mean v=omega*r?
No, I was asking about the three linear velocities and their relationship... but ωr is one way to connect them.
 
  • #12
haruspex said:
No, I was asking about the three linear velocities and their relationship... but ωr is one way to connect them.
ω*r gives the velocities at the left and right side of the pulley S, this gives a v upwards for the right side and v downward for the left side. This is the velocity by rotation, but the pulley also translates with a velocity v. This the translation v is for the left middle and right side the same. So, it adding the left side gives 0, for the middle v, and right 2v.
 
  • #13
jeffrey said:
ω*r gives the velocities at the left and right side of the pulley S, this gives a v upwards for the right side and v downward for the left side. This is the velocity by rotation, but the pulley also translates with a velocity v. This the translation v is for the left middle and right side the same. So, it adding the left side gives 0, for the middle v, and right 2v.
Good, so apply the same reasoning to the next pulley along.
 
  • #14
haruspex said:
Good, so apply the same reasoning to the next pulley along.
The next one doesn't translate only rotate, and because the right side of pulley S moved with 2v pulley R is rotating with 2v.
 
  • #15
jeffrey said:
The next one doesn't translate only rotate, and because the right side of pulley S moved with 2v pulley R is rotating with 2v.
I mean the next pulley along at the same level, the one the mass hangs from.
 
  • #16
haruspex said:
I mean the next pulley along at the same level, the one the mass hangs from.
Okay, that one rotates with a velocity of 2v but translates also upwards. So what I'd say is that the left side moves with 2v-v, the middle v and the right side 2v+v.
 
  • #17
jeffrey said:
rotates with a velocity of 2v
How fast is the string on its left moving down? If the pulley were not moving up, how fast would it be rotating? Does its upward movement change that?
 
  • #18
haruspex said:
How fast is the string on its left moving down? If the pulley were not moving up, how fast would it be rotating? Does its upward movement change that?
It is moving down with 2v right? So if it were not moving up it would rotate with 2v/r. I think the upward movement does change it. The upward movement gives the left, middle and right side a velocity of v upwards. While the rotation gives the left side a velocity of 2v downwards and 2v upward so adding the velocities does change it.
Or am i thinking wrong?
 
  • #19
jeffrey said:
The upward movement gives the left, middle and right side a velocity of v upwards. While the rotation gives the left side a velocity of 2v downwards and 2v upward
You lost me somewhere in there.
We know the left is moving down at 2v and the centre moving up at v. So what is the rotation rate, and what does that make the velocity of the right side?
 
  • #20
haruspex said:
You lost me somewhere in there.
We know the left is moving down at 2v and the centre moving up at v. So what is the rotation rate, and what does that make the velocity of the right side?
3v?
 
  • #21
haruspex said:
You lost me somewhere in there.
We know the left is moving down at 2v and the centre moving up at v. So what is the rotation rate, and what does that make the velocity of the right side?
I have an exam about this tomorrow could you please tell me?
 
  • #22
jeffrey said:
3v?
Not sure which question you are answering.
A rotation rate would be some constant multiplied by v/r, so I assume you have jumped straight to answering the velocity of the RHS. I ask intermediate questions for a reason.

If the rotation rate is ##\omega## then the left hand side is moving down at ##r\omega## relative to the centre. The centre is moving up at v, so the net velocity of the LHS is down at ##r\omega-v##, but we know that it is moving down at 2v, so we have the equation ##r\omega-v=2v##. This gives you the rotation rate.
Write the corresponding equation for the RHS.
 
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  • #23
haruspex said:
Not sure which question you are answering.
A rotation rate would be some constant multiplied by v/r, so I assume you have jumped straight to answering the velocity of the RHS. I ask intermediate questions for a reason.

If the rotation rate is ##\omega## then the left hand side is moving down at ##r\omega## relative to the centre. The centre is moving up at v, so the net velocity of the LHS is down at ##r\omega-v##, but we know that it is moving down at 2v, so we have the equation ##r\omega-v=2v##. This gives you the rotation rate.
Write the corresponding equation for the RHS.
Thank you a lot!
RHS would be ##r\omega+v=4v##, with r*omega being 3v right.
 
  • #24
jeffrey said:
Thank you a lot!
RHS would be ##r\omega+v=4v##, with r*omega being 3v right.
Yes, so now you can see the pattern: each turn around a lower pulley adds 2v.
 
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  • #25
haruspex said:
Yes, so now you can see the pattern: each turn around a lower pulley adds 2v.
ahaa i get it now thank you a lot!
 

Related to Pulley angular velocity problem

1. What is a pulley angular velocity problem?

A pulley angular velocity problem is a type of physics problem that involves calculating the angular velocity of a pulley system. This is the rate at which the pulley rotates around its axis, and it is measured in radians per second.

2. How do you calculate the angular velocity of a pulley?

The angular velocity of a pulley can be calculated by dividing the linear velocity of a point on the pulley by the radius of the pulley. This can be represented by the formula: ω = v/r, where ω is the angular velocity, v is the linear velocity, and r is the radius of the pulley.

3. What factors affect the angular velocity of a pulley?

The angular velocity of a pulley is affected by several factors, including the speed at which the pulley is being driven, the size of the pulley, and the mass of the objects being lifted or moved by the pulley system.

4. How is the direction of the angular velocity determined in a pulley system?

The direction of the angular velocity in a pulley system is determined by the direction in which the pulley is rotating. If the pulley is rotating clockwise, the angular velocity will be negative, and if it is rotating counterclockwise, the angular velocity will be positive.

5. How can pulley angular velocity problems be applied in real-life situations?

Pulley angular velocity problems can be applied in various real-life situations, such as calculating the speed of a car's tires, determining the rotational speed of a wind turbine, or understanding the motion of a bicycle pedal. They are also important in engineering and design, as they can help in the design of efficient and effective pulley systems for lifting and moving objects.

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