Thermodynamics Entropy +2nd law problem

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a thermodynamics problem involving the expansion of propane in a turbine, where participants are tasked with determining the lowest possible exhaust temperature and the work obtained during the process. The scenario assumes ideal gas behavior and negligible heat transfer to the surroundings.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Conceptual clarification

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to calculate work done using Bernoulli's equation and the Ideal Gas Law but expresses uncertainty regarding the pressure calculation. Other participants confirm the pressure value and discuss the implications of using specific pressure in the context of the problem.

Discussion Status

Participants are actively engaging with the problem, providing confirmations and clarifications. Some guidance has been offered regarding the use of isentropic process equations, and there is a recognition of the assumptions made in the problem setup. However, there is no explicit consensus on the correctness of the pressure calculation or the classification of the process as isentropic.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the problem lacks information on moles or mass, which may affect the calculations. The assumption of negligible heat transfer is also a point of discussion, influencing the classification of the process.

physstudent1
Messages
267
Reaction score
1

Homework Statement


Propane at 350 degrees Celsius and 600cm^3 / mol is expanded in a turbine. The exhaust is atmospheric. What is the lowest possible exhaust temperature? How much work is obtained? You may assume ideal gas behavior and the heat transfer to the surroundings is negligible.


Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution



I haven't gotten too far but I would like someone to confirm what I have done so far is correct, I went straight to finding the work done which by using a form of Bernoulli's is W/n = \int vdP to find the first pressure I did Ideal Gas Law P1=(350+273)*n*(8.314)/(600cm^3/mol) to get a specific Pressure(the problem didn't give any mole information or mass) Then I did the integral and found Work/mol but I am getting an extremely large number for the initial pressure (8.633*10^6 Pa). I'm a little iffy on if I can actually use a specific pressure here can anyone help please
 
Physics news on Phys.org
you can find propane mole mass: it's CH3-CH2-CH3, so it's 3×12 + 8×1 = 44 kg/kmol.
i get the same pressure as you did. it's not that high pressure for a turbine, i guess. note that pressure cannot be specific, it doesn't depend on mass or mole mass.
since heat transfer to the surroundings is negligible, you should use equations for isentropic processes. search wikipedia for isentropic or adiabatic or so, there must be equations like (p1/p2) = (T1/T2)^(sth).
to calculate work, you don't have to start with that integral. just use the equations already derived from that integral.
 
thank you very much I got it.
 
although pressure cannot be specific is this calculation of pressure correcT? what I mean is will the pressure calculated here work for the rest of the problem?

also how do I know this is an isentropic process
 
Last edited:
sure it'll work, juse keep in mind results will be in units of Joule/kg or Joule/mole or m3/kg etc.

this is isentropic because there is no heat transfer to the surroundings.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
945
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
12
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 17 ·
Replies
17
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K