Finding acceleration of a mass being pulled by another mass over two pulleys

AI Thread Summary
The discussion focuses on calculating the acceleration of mass m1 being pulled by a system involving two pulleys with mass. The key point is that the masses of the pulleys must be considered, as they affect the tension in the rope and the overall dynamics of the system. The tension between the pulleys and the ceiling is labeled differently, indicating that the pulleys are rotating rather than motionless. Participants suggest using equations for linear motion and torque to derive the correct relationships, emphasizing the need for proper variable definitions for acceleration. The moment of inertia for the pulleys is noted, and it is suggested that the radius of the pulleys will not impact the final equations.
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Homework Statement


A mass m1 is pulled along a frictionless horizontal surface by a rope of tension T1, which passes over a pulley of mass mP1 to a hanging pulley of mass mP2, after which it is fixed to the ceiling, as shown in Fig. 1. Labeling the
tension between pulleys 1 and 2 T2, and that between pulley 2 and the ceiling as T3, find the acceleration of the mass
m1. Note that the acceleration of pulley 2 is half the acceleration of m1
The acceleration of m1 is:
(a) 0
(b) \frac{m(P2)g}{2m1+mP1+(3/4)mP2}
(c) \frac{m(P2)g}{2m1+mP2}
(d) g
(e) \frac{m(P2)g}{2m1+mP1+mP2}

Homework Equations


I have no clue


The Attempt at a Solution


when I did it, I got a=\frac{m2g}{2m1+(m2)/2}
But, this is not right. Does it depend on if pulley1 has a mass?
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/wph3q
(if for some reason the diagram doesn't show)
http://www.freeimagehosting.net/wph3q
 
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Yes! You noticed the trouble in your solution.

The masses of the two pulleys MUST be taken into account. The reason for this is that the pulleys are assumed to be rotating. That was the reason that the tensions in all parts of the string were named differently.The string is not just slipping over smooth motionless pulleys.

Hence one must use
F = ma ............for the linear motion and
Torque = moment of inertia x angular acceleration..for the angular motion.
 
So how do I start?

What I have:
τmp1=Iω
τmp2=Iω
Fm1=ma
-where all of the accelerations are the same
Fmp2=ma
-where the acceleration is half of the other acceleration

Is this correct? If so, how do I put them together?
 
Try to stick to the given variable names where appropriate: m1, T1, T2, T3, mp1, mp2. Of course you'll also need new variables for acceleration: maybe a for the mass m1 (and therefore a/2 for the vertical accn of pulley 2), and α for the angular accn (ω is usually for angular velocity).
I find it surprising that the radii of the pulleys don't come into it. I would let those be r1 and r2 and see what happens.
With all that in place, list the forces acting on each component and write out corresponding acceleration equations.
 
The moment of inertia for the pulley may be assumed to be that for a uniform disc
i.e. I = \frac{M_{p}R^{2}}{2}.

The angular acceleration \alpha is best put in terms of the linear acceleration a
using a = R\alpha

Then when the equation for the torque τ is used it will be noticed that the radius R of the pulley will be eliminated from the equation.
 
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