Finding magnitude of tension that causes object to slip

Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around determining the magnitude of tension in a rope pulling a sled with a box on an incline. The problem involves concepts from mechanics, specifically dealing with forces, friction, and motion on an inclined plane.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to analyze the forces acting on both the box and the sled, using free body diagrams and net force equations. They express concern about the calculated tension being lower than expected and question the validity of their approach regarding static friction.

Discussion Status

Participants have provided feedback on the original poster's calculations, particularly regarding the normal force on the box and the treatment of static friction in the equations. There is an ongoing exploration of the assumptions made in the problem setup, with suggestions for reevaluating certain components of the analysis.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the normal force on the box must be calculated considering the incline, rather than simply using the weight of the box. There is also a discussion about the role of static friction in the context of the forces acting on the sled and box system.

B_Ran
Messages
2
Reaction score
0

Homework Statement


A rope attached to a 19.0 kg wood sled pulls the sled up a 19.0° snow-covered hill. A 14.0 kg wood box rides on top of the sled.

EDIT: the actual question to be answered, oops.

What's the magnitude of the tension that will cause the box to slide?

Mass of box (mb) = 14.0kg
Mass of sled and box (ms) = 33.0kg
Coefficient of static friction for wood on wood (μs) = 0.5
Coefficient of kinetic friction for wood on snow (μk) = 0.06
Angle of slope (θ) = 19°

Homework Equations


Fnet = m*a
Fs = μsn
Fk = μkn

The Attempt at a Solution


[/B]
I've drawn the free body diagrams for both just the box, and for the sled and box combination as they sit on the slope. I've drawn graphs of both and made a chart of the force's x and y components. Getting the relevant forces for each, I've composed two Fnet equations in the x direction.

Equation for net force on the box in the x direction:

Fnetbx = mba
-Fgsin(19°) + fs = mba
-mbg*sin(19) + mbs = mba
-14(9.8)sin(19) + 14(9.8)(0.5) = 14a
-44.668 + 68.6 = 14a
23.932 = 14a
acceleration = 1.71
I found the acceleration and the answer seems reasonable given the context of the problem.

Equation for net force on the sled+box in the x direction:

Fnetsx = msa
T + fs - fk - Fg1sin(19) - Fg2sin(19) = msa
T + mbs - msk - mbgsin(19) - msgsin(19) = msa
T + 14(9.8)(0.5) - 33(9.8)(0.06) - 14(9.8)sin(19) - 33(9.8)sin(19) = 33(1.71)
T + 68.6 - 19.404 - 44.668 - 105.289 = 56.43
T - 100.761 = 56.43
T = 157.191
Having the acceleration from the first equation, I solved for the tension on the rope. This number concerns me, 157N seems a little low for a force that is pulling that much weight up the slope.

Having used the coefficient for static friction of wood on wood in finding this tension, I was thinking that any force greater than it would cause the box on the sled to slip. My answer of 157.2 is incorrect.

After this I tried going back to just the box.
If fsmaximum = μs*n
fsmaxmimum = (0.5)(14)(-Fgcos(19))
fsmaxmimum = (0.5)(14)(-14*9.8*cos(19))
fsmaxmimum = 908
This number doesn't make any sense to me and its clear now that I'm lost. :]

Did I make a mistake somewhere along the lines, or have I not taken this problem far enough? Thank you in advance.
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
The normal force on the box is not the weight of the box. That would be the case on a horizontal surface, not on an incline.

On edit: Welcome to PF.
 
kuruman said:
The normal force on the box is not the weight of the box. That would be the case on a horizontal surface, not on an incline.

On edit: Welcome to PF.

Thank you for the welcome!
I considered this and thought I had done right when instead of multiplying the mass of the object by just gravity, as is the case when the object is on a flat surface, I multiplied the mass by the y component of its weight. I see now where I went wrong because that value still isn't parallel with the normal force. I'll attempt again with this information thank you
 
B_Ran said:
Equation for net force on the sled+box in the x direction:
T + fs - fk - Fg1sin(19) - Fg2sin(19) = msa
There is more. Lose the fs in this equation. If you are writing the net force on the two-mass system the force of static friction on the wood is equal and opposite to that on the sled so they add up to zero.
 

Similar threads

Replies
4
Views
5K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
4K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
18K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
7K
Replies
4
Views
5K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
14K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
6K