Problem with signs in the Lorentz Transformation equations

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around Exercise 2.1 from Ray d'Inverno's 'Introducing Einstein's Relativity,' focusing on the Galilean transformation equations between different observers. The original poster presents various parts of the exercise, including writing down transformations and proving properties of the transformations.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to derive the Galilean transformations and questions the correctness of their answers compared to the textbook. Some participants express opinions on the correctness of the original poster's answers, while others discuss the assumptions made in the problem setup.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing, with participants providing feedback on the original poster's attempts. There is a mix of agreement and questioning regarding the correctness of the transformations, particularly in parts (c) and (d). Some participants suggest that the original poster's reasoning is valid, while others emphasize the importance of self-verification.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the assumptions regarding the alignment of coordinate systems and the conditions under which the transformations are derived, such as the clocks coinciding at t = 0.

spaghetti3451
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Homework Statement



The following is Exercise 2.1 from from Ray d'Inverno's 'Introducing Einstein's Relativity.'

(a) Write down the Galilean transformation from observer ##S## to observer ##S'##, where ##S'## has velocity ##v_1## relative to ##S##.
(b) Find the transformation from ##S'## to ##S## and state in simple terms how the transformations are related.
(c) Write down the Galilean transformation from ##S'## to ##S''##, where ##S''## has velocity ##v_2## relative to ##S'##.
(d) Find the transformation from ##S## to ##S''##.
(e) Prove that the Gailiean transformations form an Abelian (commutative) group.

2. Homework Equations

3. The Attempt at a Solution


(a) My answer is $$x' = x - v_1 t,\ y'=y,\ z'=z,\ t'=t,$$ which matches with the textbook answer. So, no problem here.
(b) My answer is $$x = x' + v_1 t,\ y=y',\ z=z',\ t=t',$$ which again matches with the textbook answer. So, no problem here.
(c) My answer is $$x''=x'- v_2 t,\ y''=y',\ z''=z',\ t''=t',$$ but the textbook answer is $$x''=x'+ v_2 t,\ y''=y',\ z''=z',\ t''=t'.$$
(d) My answer is $$x''=x- ( v_ 1 + v_2 ) t,\ y''=y,\ z''=z,\ t''=t,$$ but the textbook answer is $$x''=x+ ( v_ 1 + v_2 ) t,\ y''=y,\ z''=z,\ t''=t.$$

Can someone please tell me if my answers are wrong, or if the textbook answers are wrong?
 
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They way you put it the book is wrong and you are right.

It's a small miracle that you agree in a) and b) :wink: since both you and the book assume ##v_1## is along the x-axis of ##S## and ##S'##, and that both clocks and coordinate systems coincide at t = 0.
 
Alright, then, here's my attempt to part (e) of the question.The group elements of the Galilean transformations are the velocities ##v## of ##S'## relative to ##S##.

Consider the boost from ##S## to ##S'##, and then the boost from ##S'## to ##S''##, so that ##x''=x- ( v_ 1 + v_2 ) t,## so that ##v = v_1 + v_2##. So, the group of Galilean transformations is closed.

Consider the boost from ##S## to ##S''##, and then the boost from ##S''## to ##S'''##, so that ##x''' = x'' - v_3 t = x - (v_1 + v_2 + v_3) t##. Also, consider the boost from ##S## to ##S'##, and then the boost from ##S'## to ##S'''##, so that ##x''' = x' - (v_2 + v_3) t = x - (v_1 + v_2 + v_3) t##. So, the group multiplication operation is associative.

##v = 0## is the identity element, because it transforms ##(x, y, z, t)## into ##(x, y, z, t)##.

##-v## is the inverse of ##v##, because the consecutive application of ##v## and ##-v## transforms ##(x, y, z, t)## into ##(x, y, z, t)##.

The above four properties prove that the Galilean transformations form a group.

Furthermore, consider a boost by velocity ##v_1##, and then a boost by velocity ##v_2##, so that ##x''' = x'' - v_2 t = (x' - v_1 t) - v_2 t = x' - (v_1 + v_2) t##. Also, consider a boost by velocity ##v_2##, and then a boost by velocity ##v_1##, so that ##x''' = x'' - v_1 t = (x' - v_2 t) - v_1 t = x' - (v_1 + v_2) t##. So, the group of Galilean transformations is Abelian (commutative).Do you think my proof is correct?
 
Does it help if I say yes ? You really want to convince yourself, and it shouldn't make a difference if I say "well, it looks good to me !" (which I am perfectly happy to do, even if it probably is against PF rules ("we look at them more as guidelines :wink: ")
 
Thank you!
 

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