Question about tensions in pulley problems?

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding tensions in pulley problems, specifically focusing on the direction of tension forces in free body diagrams (FBDs) for different systems. Participants are exploring the implications of Newton's third law in the context of these tensions.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the choice of system for drawing FBDs and how it affects the direction of tension. Questions arise about the nature of force pairs and whether it is appropriate to consider tensions in different directions as the same force.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants providing insights into the relationship between tension forces and their directions based on different reference frames. Some guidance has been offered regarding the action-reaction principle, but multiple interpretations of tension direction are still being explored.

Contextual Notes

Participants are navigating the complexities of naming conventions and the inherent assumptions in analyzing forces in pulley systems. There is an acknowledgment of the limitations of pushing versus pulling with ropes in the context of tension.

Elmer Correa
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Homework Statement


The scenario I'll use specifically is in the attached file. I can understand why the pulley can have two different tensions, one for each side of the pulley, but what I don't get is why the direction of each individual tension reverses direction? For example, in the free body diagram for mass 2, the direction of tension is in the positive y direction while when drawn from the pulley's perspective, it's in the negative y. And how could tension 1 be in the negative x direction when it's the only force that could be pushing mass 1 to the right?
Thanks for any clarification.

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution

 

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It all depends on what system you choose to draw the FBD for. If your system is the mass on the table, the tension is to the right; if your system is the pulley, then the tension is to the left. Note that the two arrows labeled T1 in the two FBDs have equal magnitudes and opposite directions. They are action-reaction counterparts as required by Newton's third law.
 
kuruman said:
Note that the two arrows labeled T1 in the two FBDs have equal magnitudes and opposite directions. They are action-reaction counterparts as required by Newton's third law.
Could you elaborate on the force pair at play here? And since this is a force pair, is it even accurate to consider both directions of tension 1 or 2 the same force? If so, is this just the result of naming conventions that make problems like these easier to solve?
 
You can pull with a rope but you cannot push with a rope. That's why tensions in FBDs are always directed away from the system in question.
Look at the picture of two persons pulling on a rope shown below. If you ask the person on the left "Which way is the rope pulling on you?", he will say "to the right". If you ask the person on the right the same question, he will say "to the left."
TugOfwar.png


The tension in the FBDs for each man will look like this
FBDs.png
 

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    TugOfwar.png
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  • FBDs.png
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