Random Thoughts Part 5: Time to Split Again

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The discussion revolves around various topics, including a dream about a person named Borek, reflections on the book "The Martian," and the complexities of educational systems in the US and UK. Participants share insights on the long and short scales of numbers, particularly regarding the term "billion," and discuss the differences in high school and college education between the two countries. The conversation also touches on personal anecdotes, such as perfecting a Kung Pao sauce recipe and experiences with local disturbances. Overall, the thread showcases a blend of light-hearted personal stories and deeper discussions on education and cultural differences.
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Halfway through "The Martian".
Holy Moses, this is a fun book.

ps. I had a dream about Borek today. I ran into him in a pet fish shop. He didn't recognize me. But I recognized him, and told him that I knew he had just written a book. He did not seem to care, and left without buying any fish. I purchased 6.
 
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OmCheeto said:
...
ps. I had a dream about Borek today. I ran into him in a pet fish shop. He didn't recognize me. But I recognized him, and told him that I knew he had just written a book. He did not seem to care, and left without buying any fish. I purchased 6.
My grandparents once explained me something about dreams like this that somebody not you was using your body in your dream; we shared our bodies with the unknown. They are old and superstitious though. :-p
By the way, I tend to "try" to continue dreaming a little even though I am almost awake because I would want to see the end in every dreamy sleep. So if I were you I would continue to watch which fish would die next and seek a chance if any that Borek would come back to say Hello.
 
Running into Borek in a pet fish shop - your aquarium will have new occupants (from The Egyptian Dream Book).
 
Borek said:
Running into Borek in a pet fish shop - your aquarium will have new occupants (from The Egyptian Dream Book).
That's probably why I think I will love Omcheeto more than I do now. Don't wake up, Omcheeto! I'm coming in, so dream on !
 
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fresh_42 said:
Well, it depends on where you do the math.
In German 1 billion equals ##10^{12}## so it makes sense.
1.2*1012/(300*106) = 4000, not 4 millions. This larger billion would be the US GPD of a month. Which makes sense, if you divide it by the population you get something of the order of a monthly income.

That larger billion not typically German by the way, it is widely used in Europe and some other regions. Long and short scales
Wikipedia has a map. Red=Short scale (1000 millions are a billion), Blue=Long scale (1 million millions are a billion)
 
mfb said:
1.2*1012/(300*106) = 4000, not 4 millions. This larger billion would be the US GPD of a month. Which makes sense, if you divide it by the population you get something of the order of a monthly income.

That larger billion not typically German by the way, it is widely used in Europe and some other regions. Long and short scales
Wikipedia has a map. Red=Short scale (1000 millions are a billion), Blue=Long scale (1 million millions are a billion)
That's true. I commented it elsewhere before and said 4,300 each would be fine. That's been probably still on my mind. What I do not understand on the map you linked is, that Germany is blue whereas the words 'Milliarde' etc. are used so shouldn't it be 'con millardo'? If so, then the map isn't really reliable. But in general it gives a good overview.
 
If anyone goes to Oxford, they will realize how comfortable their uniforms are.
 
https://www.quantamagazine.org/20160112-string-theory-meets-loop-quantum-gravity/

I like how Rovelli says "The string planet is infinitely less arrogant than ten years ago [...]" while being equally arrogant.
Other than that, I like how the current generation of young physicists is open minded enough to consider "competing" theories.

In unrelated news I might have perfected my Kung pao sauce and have to write down my recipe now. The last thing I'd like to try is using balsamic vinegar instead of rice wine vinegar.
 
  • #10
fresh_42 said:
That's true. I commented it elsewhere before and said 4,300 each would be fine. That's been probably still on my mind. What I do not understand on the map you linked is, that Germany is blue whereas the words 'Milliarde' etc. are used so shouldn't it be 'con millardo'? If so, then the map isn't really reliable. But in general it gives a good overview.
"Escala corta (con millardo)" is the short scale with an additional word for 109 (but not for 1015 for example). Some weird mixture of long and short scale.

Germany, as most other European countries, has the full long scale:
3 - Tausend
6 - Million
9 - Milliarde
12 - Billion
15 - Billiarde
18 - Trillion
21 - Trilliarde
...

The long scale is more logical, by the way. There is nothing "two-like" in a English Billion for 109. Using the word for (106)2, trillion for (106)3 and so on follows a pattern.
 
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  • #11
To all of you Americans; I've heard that higher education in the US is around secondary-level in the UK. Is that true?
 
  • #12
Fenris said:
To all of you Americans; I've heard that higher education in the US is around secondary-level in the UK. Is that true?
Don't believe everything you hear.

There are many Americans, even on this site, that would be more than willing to offer you a hand in pursuit of further education.
 
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  • #13
Fenris said:
To all of you Americans; I've heard that higher education in the US is around secondary-level in the UK. Is that true?
We have High School through grade 12, that's 13 years, kindergarten and grades 1-12, then after high school around ages 18-19, you can opt to go to University/college, we consider them the same thing basically, where in England I believe that you call the last 2 years of high school "college".
 
  • #14
Evo said:
We have High School through grade 12, that's 13 years, kindergarten and grades 1-12, then after high school around ages 18-19, you can opt to go to University/college, we consider them the same thing basically, where in England I believe that you call he last 2 years of high school "college".
I see that I wasn't clear enough in my post. What I'm trying to ask is if what people in the US learn in college is what we learn in high school. As I said in my previous post, I was simply told that education in the US is, for lack of better words, "dumbed down" compared to ours.
 
  • #15
Fenris said:
I see that I wasn't clear enough in my post. What I'm trying to ask is if what people in the US learn in college is what we learn in high school. As I said in my previous post, I was simply told that education in the US is, for lack of better words, "dumbed down" compared to ours.
No, I would have to disagree with that, some high School courses are university level, we have AP (Advanced Placement) which replaces first year college/University courses and honors classes. I have friends in the UK, and American High schools are definitely not "dumbed down", of course there are courses for children with learning disabilities. From talking to some of my friends in the UK, it sounds like they might have trouble with our higher level high school courses.

Of course you will hear different opinions, school curriculums vary widely, there are good schools, great schools, average schools, bad schools, same with teachers.
 
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  • #16
Evo said:
No, I would have to disagree with that, some high School courses are university level, we have AP (Advanced Placement) which replaces first year college courses and honors classes. I have friends in the UK, and American High schools are definitely not "dumbed down", of course there are courses for children with learning disabilities.
Ah, I see. Thanks for clearing that up.
 
  • #17
Fenris said:
I see that I wasn't clear enough in my post. What I'm trying to ask is if what people in the US learn in college is what we learn in high school. As I said in my previous post, I was simply told that education in the US is, for lack of better words, "dumbed down" compared to ours.
Speaking from personal experience, knowing many people born and raised in the UK, and also many people born and raised in the United States, no, I don't believe what you were told is accurate.
 
  • #18
Ouch!

I'm trying to compose a tune for a fish program*. But I haven't picked up the guitar in so long my callouses are gone. I guess I just have to suck it up and play through the pain.

I think I might title the tune, "Sleeps with the fishes**," but I haven't decided yet.

*(More on the fish program later).

**(Might as well get in on this thing going on with @Silicon Waffle, @OmCheeto, and @Borek).
 
  • #19
Fenris said:
To all of you Americans; I've heard that higher education in the US is around secondary-level in the UK. Is that true?
In some cases, yes. The secondary education process in rather non-uniform, even among secondary education (grades 7-12) in the same metropolitan school district.

The top 5% of US high school students probably get as good an education as the best high schools or secondary education in the EU. About 40 years ago, I was in a secondary education program, which sent graduates to Caltech, MIT, Harvard, Princeton, . . . . However, there were other schools in the same district that did not have the same quality of education. From my own personal experience in local communities where I have lived, not much has changed in 40 years.
 
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  • #21
I was at this donut shop tonight. There is a hookah lounge a few doors down. A large crowd of 'youngsters' came out of the hookah lounge, yelling and pushing. There was also some punching. Then I heard the sound of a taser. Couldn't see who was wielding it, though. Almost a mini-riot.

Anyway, the police showed up and sorted it out.
 
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  • #22
I think I need to correct my posture while I still can.
 
  • #23
So, one of my friends on FaceBook posts:

"Man that celebrity rule of three is getting too eerily accurate."

He's referring to the very closely spaced deaths of Lemmy, Bowie, and Alan Rickman, and the notion that is often repeated that 'celebrities die in groups of three.' Personally, I had no idea who "Lemmy" was and therefore, can't lump him with the other two. So, in my opinion, the third shoe has not yet dropped.
 
  • #24
zoobyshoe said:
So, one of my friends on FaceBook posts:

"Man that celebrity rule of three is getting too eerily accurate."

He's referring to the very closely spaced deaths of Lemmy, Bowie, and Alan Rickman, and the notion that is often repeated that 'celebrities die in groups of three.' Personally, I had no idea who "Lemmy" was and therefore, can't lump him with the other two. So, in my opinion, the third shoe has not yet dropped.

I think it is the former guitarist of the metal band " Motorhead"

http://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/lemmy-kilmister-funeral-rock-stars-7150345

Although if there are enough older stars, enough of them are dying and you can just choose any three of them.
 
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  • #25
A nice change: for a few weeks now, I have lost much of my appetite for junkish food (which I largely avoid, but have to fight the temptation*). Hope it remains this way.

* Tho not the Temptations. They are famous but I don't think any of them has died recently.
 
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  • #26
WWGD said:
A nice change: for a few weeks now, I have lost much of my appetite for junkish food (which I largely avoid, but have to fight the temptation*).
I would think that 'losing the appetite for' automatically means 'experiencing no temptation for'.
 
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  • #27
The Truth is Out There...

9 more days.
 
  • #28
Evo said:
No, I would have to disagree with that, some high School courses are university level, we have AP (Advanced Placement) which replaces first year college/University courses and honors classes. I have friends in the UK, and American High schools are definitely not "dumbed down", of course there are courses for children with learning disabilities. From talking to some of my friends in the UK, it sounds like they might have trouble with our higher level high school courses.

Of course you will hear different opinions, school curriculums vary widely, there are good schools, great schools, average schools, bad schools, same with teachers.
I'm still confused about the US school system as well. There are so many options and levels.
AP, honours, no child left behind, common core, college (what the heck is that? some kind of preparation for university because high school does not prepare you enough? ) community college (lower quality college for poor students?) , undergrad, graduate, minor and major subjects, ...

Oh this seems to be equally complicated as us healthcare system! . :-) But it looks that our own politicians got inspired by the US and now each generation of kids learns according to different curriculums :-) teachers and those preparing entrance exams to universities love that! [emoji14]
In my times just 10 years ago it was one primary school for 9 years, one type of high school that prepares you for the university and various types of high schools producing blue collar workers ( special schools for cooks, hairdressers, hotel business, plumbers, builders, butchers...) . That's it. Simple and plain.
I still haven't discovered how you become a plumber in the US, what type of school do you need for that.
 
  • #29
Sophia said:
I still haven't discovered how you become a plumber in the US, what type of school do you need for that.
You do an "old-fashioned" apprenticeship.
 
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  • #30
Stretching may lead to a pain in the ass.
 
  • #31
I've been to an Asia shop yesterday. I now know how peanut sauce for satay is made. There are occasions you do not want to know details.
 
  • #32
Enigman said:
Stretching may lead to a pain in the ass.
Serious, I never feel pain there after stretching, except my back and groins when I try to widespread my legs into 2 opposite directions then lower my body until it reaches the floor.
 
  • #33
zoobyshoe said:
I would think that 'losing the appetite for' automatically means 'experiencing no temptation for'.
No, I mean _up until now_, I craved , but , _recently_ I do not crave any more. Just to say that Idid not eat much of it _despite_ craving it. I will try to write a program next time, with all details included to avoid ambiguity. Strictly speaking I should have said that I had largely avoided despite the temptation to give in _u8ntil recently_.
 
  • #34
WWGD said:
A nice change: for a few weeks now, I have lost much of my appetite for junkish food (which I largely avoid, but have to fight the temptation*). Hope it remains this way.
WWGD said:
No, I mean _up until now_, I craved , but , _recently_ I do not crave any more. Just to say that Idid not eat much of it _despite_ craving it. I will try to write a program next time, with all details included to avoid ambiguity.
The ambiguity comes from the original post employing the present tense where it should have been a past tense: "...I have lost much of my appetite for junkish food (which I largely avoid, but have to fight the temptation*)."

Should have been: "...I have lost much of my appetite for junkish food (which I largely avoided, but had to fight the temptation*)."
 
  • #35
I just saw something pretty cool: a flat bed truck carting an antique helicopter somewhere. As a matter of fact, it might even have been an autogyro. It was very small, and had a 1930's or 1940's style to the design. Might have been going to the aerospace museum in Balboa Park.
 
  • #36
Just saw the 14th Dalai Lama on a CNN clip. He spoke only one word in the scene: 'possible', but I had to laugh. An incredible gift.
 
  • #37
zoobyshoe said:
The ambiguity comes from the original post employing the present tense where it should have been a past tense: "...I have lost much of my appetite for junkish food (which I largely avoid, but have to fight the temptation*)."

Should have been: "...I have lost much of my appetite for junkish food (which I largely avoided, but had to fight the temptation*)."
I assume that some context can be reasonably filled in if you assume the post is not absurd, which you do not seem to assume, on a consistent basis.
 
  • #38
zoobyshoe said:
I just saw something pretty cool: a flat bed truck carting an antique helicopter somewhere. As a matter of fact, it might even have been an autogyro. It was very small, and had a 1930's or 1940's style to the design. Might have been going to the aerospace museum in Balboa Park.

Do you mean the helicopter was somewhere within the truck or that the helicopter was being taken somewhere? I mean, how can the helicopter really b e somewhere within a flat truck. Besides, how can a truck be really flat? Don't you mean flat-style -truck , or at least flat-bed truck, to know that flat modifies bed, and it is then a flat-bed truck, and not a truck that has a bed but is flat? Or maybe you have a flat bed (??) which also happens to be a truck?

EDIT: Common, Zooby, please leave the rigor for the serious forums in PF. Plenty of opportunities to be precise there, let's leave this forum, specially the Random Thoughts part of it, free of demans for rigor, as an outlet.
 
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  • #39
Would you both consider the possibility that spoken or written language is neither context-free nor unambiguous and we are no push-down automatons?
 
  • #40
fresh_42 said:
Would you both consider the possibility that spoken or written language is neither context-free nor unambiguous and we are no push-down automatons?
That is my whole point; "ambiguity" is contextual. Besides, I am not writing an academic paper here, I am not aiming for the highest level of precision. But neither does Zoobyshoe seem to be, as I pointed out in my previous post.
 
  • #41
WWGD said:
That is my whole point; "ambiguity" is contextual. Besides, I am not writing an academic paper here, I am not aiming for the highest level of precision. But neither does Zoobyshoe seem to be, as I pointed out in my previous post.
I know. Very likely I sounded more serious than it was meant to be. I hoped someone jumped on the picture of humans as stack machines ... closing the circle to junk food. :wink:
 
  • #42
I think I'm the only meat-eating person I know of who doesn't care for lamb.
 
  • #43
lisab said:
I think I'm the only meat-eating person I know of who doesn't care for lamb.
You mean you are not a shepard to a flock of lamb? Maybe Zoobyshoe can interpret it better :) .
 
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  • #44
WWGD said:
You mean you are not a shepard to a flock of lamb? Maybe Zoobyshoe can interpret it better :) .
Just keep him away from any livestock...do you have any idea what a hungry Zooby is capable of?!
 
  • #45
lisab said:
Just keep him away from any livestock...do you have any idea what a hungry Zooby is capable of?!

Given his (at least Avatar) size, I can see him picking up a lamb and eating it raw, spitting out the bones. He will make no bones about it, and leave no bone unturned before spitting it out.
 
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  • #46
lisab said:
I think I'm the only meat-eating person I know of who doesn't care for lamb.
Me, too.
 
  • #47
fresh_42 said:
Me, too.
Me two (one for LisaB, one for Fresh, but no for me, so the total , so far, is two), i.e., I like lamb.
 
  • #48
I remember how I would , ridiculously, become annoyed at the fact that the expression ' i.e '., would often appear as i.E , since the writing software would interpret the period after the i in i.e., to denote the end of a sentence and would then go on to capitalize the next letter , ending with i.E . Definitely a first-world complaint.
 
  • #49
WWGD said:
Me two (one for LisaB, one for Fresh, but no for me, so the total , so far, is two), i.e., I like lamb.
But the portions are so tiny. (I owe you a good laughter on the 'i.e.' part!)
 
  • #50
fresh_42 said:
But the portions are so tiny. (I owe you a good laughter on the 'i.e.' part!)
So your issue is more with portion size than with taste?
 

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