Lagrangian Definition and 1000 Threads

  1. C

    Lagrangian invariant but Action is gauge invariant

    Homework Statement So I'm having some difficulty with my QFT assignment. I have to solve the following problem. In three spacetime dimensions (two space plus one time) an antisymmetric Lorentz tensor F^{\mu\nu} = -F^{\nu\mu} is equivalent to an axial Lorentz vector, F^{\mu\nu} =...
  2. J

    I don't understand something about the Lagrangian / action?

    We can think of a particle having kinetic and potential energy, T and V. The Hamiltonian is the sum of these, H = T + V. This seems like a sensible enough quantity to think about. However, we can also define the Lagrangian as being the difference between these two quantities, L = T-V...
  3. P

    Kinetic Energy in Spherical Coordinates? (For the Lagrangian)

    I'm doing a Lagrangian problem in spherical coordinates, and I was unsure how to express the kinetic energy, so I looked it up and wiki states it should be this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lagrangian#In_the_spherical_coordinate_system Which would give me the correct answer, but I'm...
  4. M

    Understanding Noether's Theorem and Conserved Charges for a Rotating Particle

    Homework Statement Consider the following Lagrangian of a particle moving in a D-dimensional space and interacting with a central potential field L = 1/2mv2 - k/r Use Noether's theorem to find conserved charges corresponding to the rotational symmetry of the Lagrangian. How many...
  5. C

    Simple Lagrangian question, not getting right answer

    Homework Statement A particle of mass 'm' slides on a smooth surface, the shape of which is given by y = Ax^{2} where A is a positive constant of suitable dimensions and y is measured along the vertical direction. The particle is moved slightly away from the position of equilibrium and then...
  6. M

    Are My Partial Derivatives Correct in Finding the Equations of Motion?

    Homework Statement Find equations of motion (eom) of a particle moving in a D-dimensional flat space with the following Lagrangian L = (1/2)mv2i - k/ra, r = root(x2i), m,k,a are constantsHomework Equations The Attempt at a Solution The equations of motion are given by d/dt(∂L/∂vi) - ∂L/∂xi...
  7. O

    Modelling a Falling Slinky w/ Lagrangian

    Homework Statement Hi everyone! This is not actually a homework problem, but I thought it was similar to one so I am putting it here. Basically I was watching this youtube video of a falling slinky and I decided I wanted to try modelling it with physical equations: The problem I have...
  8. N

    Why the renormalization group flow depends only the basic symmetry,but not Lagrangian

    Please teach me this: Why the renormalization group flow and the fix-point depends only on the basic symmetry but not on the Lagrangian form.In general speaking,the physics laws depend only the basic symmetries?By the way,the Klein-Gordon,linear sigma,nonlinear sigma Lagrangian flow to one...
  9. E

    Proca Lagrangian (Math troubles with four vectors)

    I'm reading Griffith's Elementary particles and I'm stuck on the math for one of the examples, could anyone show me what I'm missing or point me in the right direction? I attached a pdf (of the word doc I was using) that shows what I did so far since I'm really bad with LaTeX and it would've...
  10. I

    What is the justification for the variation of the Lagrangian in an action?

    Given an action: S = \int L(q,\dot{q},t) \,dt The variation is: \delta S = \int \left(\frac{\partial L}{\partial q}\delta q+\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{q}}\delta\dot{q}\right)\,dt I'm guessing this is some type of chain rule, but I haven't been able to derive it... how is it...
  11. M

    Question about Lagrangian in electromagnetic interaction

    Sorry for a naive question. In EM textbook and QM path integral textbook, the action and Lagrangian in electromagnetic interaction are S = L dt = e(\phi – A v) dt ---equ.(1) But in QFT textbook, the action and Lagrangian density are S = L d^4x = A J d^4x ---equ.(2) As I...
  12. K

    Questions about the Electroweak Lagrangian

    Now bear with me, I'm no expert when it comes to Electroweak Symmetry and Symmetry Breaking; I can only comprehend up to integrating, functions, derivatives, partial derivatives with a small hint of linear algebra and the basic, Hermitian, Hamiltonian, bras and kets. So my questions are the...
  13. T

    Lagrangian on a saddle advice?

    Hi, I am trying to obtain a Lagrangian for a particle moving on the surface of a saddle z = x^2 - y^2 I have an added complication that the saddle is rotating with some angular frequency, w, and not sure how to incorporate this rotation into my kinetic and potential terms. This is the...
  14. C

    Calculating Feynman Rules for Effective Electroweak Chiral Lagrangian

    Hi all, I'm trying to calculate the Feynman Rules for the effective electroweak chiral Lagrangian. For example, this is the first term in the Lagrangian: \begin{eqnarray} \mathcal{L}=\frac{v^2}{4}\text{Tr}(D_{\mu}U D^{\mu}U^{\dagger}) \end{eqnarray} where \begin{eqnarray}...
  15. P

    How Does Substituting Functions into a Lagrangian Affect Equations of Motion?

    Suppose I have a mechanical system with l + m degrees of freedom and an associated lagrangian L(\alpha,\beta,\dot{\alpha},\dot{\beta},t) where \alpha\in\mathbb{R}^l and \beta\in\mathbb{R}^m. Now suppose I have a known \mathbb{R}^l-valued function f(t) and define a new lagrangian...
  16. L

    Derivation of geodesic equation from hamiltonian (lagrangian) equations

    Homework Statement Hello, I would like to derive geodesics equations from hamiltonian H=\frac{1}{2}g^{\mu\nu}p_{\mu}p_{\nu} using hamiltonian equations. A similar case are lagrangian equations. With the definition L=g_{\mu\nu}\dot{x}^\mu\dot{x}^\nu I tried to solve the...
  17. M

    Is the 'Bare Lagrangian' in Counterterms the Same as in Feynman's Method?

    Hi there - I've been confused for a long time about the following. When we learn how to mop up divergences in QFT, we learn two methods: the Feynman method, and the method of counterterms. In the latter, we add to a Lagrangian containing physical values for the parameters a Lagrangian...
  18. fluidistic

    Finding the Hamiltonian if I'm given the Lagrangian

    Homework Statement Determine the Hamiltonian corresponding to the an-harmonic oscillator having the Lagrangian L(x,\dot x )=\frac{\dot x ^2}{2}-\frac{\omega ^2 x^2}{2}-\alpha x^3 + \beta x \dot x ^2. Homework Equations H(q,p,t)=\sum p_i \dot q _i -L. p _i=\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot...
  19. N

    How do we know which is strong,weak force with considering Lagrangian?

    Please teach me this: How do we know a force is strong,week or intermediate by considering the corresponding Lagrangian.It seem that the intensiveness depends on both coupling constant,the form of theory(form of Lagrangian).By the way, the mass of force carrier boson stipulates the range of the...
  20. A

    Lagrangian multiplier question

    So I have to find the min and max values of f(x,y,z) = x^4 + y^4 + z^ 4 given the constraint x^2 + y^2 + z^2 = 1. I've found the points (+-1/sqrt(3),1/sqrt(3) ,1/sqrt(3)), (+-1/sqrt(3),-1/sqrt(3) ,1/sqrt(3)) ... etc all of which have the f-value of 1/3 when x =/= 0 & y =/= 0 & z =/= 0 (this...
  21. M

    Lagrangian for the General Relativity

    I've always found that the lagrangian for the Gravitational field is that from the Einstein-Hilbert action: L=R (R is the Ricci scalar; I'm not including the factor of \sqrt{-g}) but when variational principles are applied, we get the vacuum field equations (obviously). I'd like someone...
  22. T

    Derivation of the Proca equation from the Proca Lagrangian

    How to show the Proca equation by using the given Proca Lagrangian? Surely, I know the Euler-Lagrange equation, but I can't solve this differentiation!(TT) The given Proca lagrangian is, \mathcal{L}=...
  23. B

    Maths of Hamiltonian / Lagrangian mechanics

    Hello everyone I have difficulties in understanding some stuff in Lagrangian and Hamiltonian mechanics. This concerns the equations : \dot p = - \frac{\partial H}{\partial q} \frac{d}{dt} \frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot q} = \frac{\partial L}{\partial q} First I have to say that I'm a math...
  24. A

    Computing Lagrangian for Light Propagation in Spacetime

    Does anyone know the Lagrangian for the propagation of light in curved spacetime? I'm disappointed to discover that I don't actually know how to compute the action for a given null curve.
  25. A

    Lagrangian Mechanics: Solving Eqtn 2.28, 2.36, and 2.37

    I don't know how to do the 4 questions. And I only have some ideas on questions 1. The details are written on the photos. Thanks for help. Eqtn 2.28 2.36 2.37 are given on the photo.
  26. K

    Lagrangian, Hamiltonian and Legendre transform of Dirac field.

    In most of the physical systems, if we have a Lagrangian L(q,\dot{q}), we can define conjugate momentum p=\frac{\partial L}{\partial{\dot{q}}}, then we can obtain the Hamiltonian via Legendre transform H(p,q)=p\dot{q}-L. A important point is to write \dot{q} as a function of p. However, for the...
  27. R

    Euler lagrangian equation associated with the variation of a given functional

    Hi All, is there anybody to give me some help on how I can calculate the Euler Lagrangian equation associated with variation of a given functional? I am new with these concepts and have no clue about the procedure. thanks a lot
  28. H

    ALE (Arbitary Lagrangian Eulerian) examples

    Hi, I was wondering if anyone had any examples of ALE codes in any dimension and using any method (FEM, FVM, FDM). I just need to know how the mesh velocity and the fluid velocity are dealt with. Many Thanks, H
  29. R

    Finding all symmetries of a given Lagrangian

    Is there a systematically way of finding all space-time symmetries of a given Lagrangian? E.g. given a electromagnetic Lagrangian, can I somehow derive that the symmetries in question are conformal ones? Thanks.
  30. C

    What is the Equation on My CERN T-Shirt?

    So I was lucky enough to visit CERN earlier this year, and they were selling t-shirts with a long equation on them. And I, like an idiot tourist, somehow jumped to the conclusion this was the standard model Lagrangian and got the t-shirt. Well, it's still a pretty cool t-shirt, but then I went...
  31. R

    Quantizating a symmetric Dirac Lagrangian

    As is well known, a Dirac Lagrangian can be written in a symmetric form: L = i/2 (\bar\psi \gamma \partial (\psi) - \partial (\bar\psi) \gamma \psi ) - m \bar\psi \psi Let \psi and \psi^\dagger be independent fields. The corresponding canonical momenta are p = i/2 \psi^\dagger...
  32. C

    Conservation of momentum from the Lagrangian formulation

    I'm going through John Taylor's book on Classical Mechanics and am having some difficulty understanding his derivation of momentum conservation in the Lagrangian section. Firstly he starts the section off with assuming that all N particles of a system are moved in space by a distance \epsilon...
  33. T

    Theory Behind Dirac Lagrangian: Reasons Nature Didn't Choose Mine

    We all know that the free Lagrangian for a spin-1/2 Dirac field is \mathcal{L}=\bar\psi(i\gamma_\mu\partial^\mu-m)\psi. But, if I were to invent a Lagrangian, I would have tried \mathcal{L}=\partial_\mu\bar\psi\partial^\mu\psi-m^2\bar\psi\psi. What's wrong with this second Lagrangian? Why...
  34. N

    Additional Term added to Electromagnetic Lagrangian

    I am currently reading and trying to solve most of the problems in Carroll's Geometry and Spacetime. I am generally okay at the math (I've done some mathy Riemannian Geometry type stuff), but am not overly good at some of the higher-level physics. Homework Statement (Chapter 1, Question 13)...
  35. A

    Lagrangian Mechanics: Intro and Answers to Ari's Questions

    Hey everyone, So I'm just looking around to get a hold of some lagrangian mechanics for the GRE's coming up. Is the lagrangian always dealing with energy? Basically there was a problem I encountered with trying to find the lagrangian of a rolling ball in some setup, and once I knew that it was...
  36. Y

    QCD Lagrangian: Multiplying 4x4 and 1x3 Matrices

    Hello, In the lagrangian of QCD, there is q which is the quark field and it is the fundamental representation of SU(3). This q is multiplied by a gamma matrix and a q bar. So, how can we have a 4x4 matrix multiplying 1x3 matrix? Thanks
  37. L

    Simple Lagrangian mechanics problem.

    Homework Statement See image (I think I forgot to rotate it, careful with your necks!): http://img600.imageshack.us/img600/7888/p1000993t.jpg The system consists of 2 point masses joined by a rigid massless bar of length 2l, which can rotate freely only in the z-x plane. The center of...
  38. M

    Lagrangian Mechanics Question: How do we get the T and V terms?

    According to my CM text, Lagrangian Mechanics can be used to derive Newton's laws. We define the Lagrangian as L=T-V. Now, how do we know what T is? Is it defined to be 1/2mv^2? The only way I know how to derive that is using the work energy theorem which feels like 'cheating' since I am...
  39. N

    Do Lagrangian and hidden symm broken Lagr describe the same physics?

    Please teach me this: Do the Lagrangian(before broken in symmetry) and corresponding hidden symmetry broken Lagrangian describe the same physics or not?Because the field in the Lagrangian before broken is shifted by a constant in comparision with the field in the broken Lagrangian,but at...
  40. G

    Proving Lagrangian L is Not Uniquely Defined

    Homework Statement I am trying to prove that Lagrangian L is not uniquely defined, but only up to a time derivative of a function: \frac{d\Lambda}{dt}, \Lambda(\vec{q}, t) So L > L+\frac{d\Lambda}{dt} = L+\frac{\partial \Lambda}{\partial q}~\dot{q}+\frac{\partial \Lambda}{\partial t} But...
  41. F

    Bilinear terms in QED lagrangian under charge conjugation

    Homework Statement I want to check that the QED lagrangian \mathcal{L}=-\frac{1}{4}F^{\alpha\beta}F_{\alpha\beta} + \bar\Psi(i\displaystyle{\not} D - m)\Psi where F^{\alpha\beta} = \partial^\alpha A^\beta - \partial^\beta A^\alpha, \ D^\mu = \partial^\mu - ieA^\mu is invariant under charge...
  42. Char. Limit

    What is the Lagrangian and how does it relate to classical mechanics?

    So I type a differential equation into Wolfram Alpha, like so: And one of the things that W-A outputs is the "Lagrangian" of that equation, which is so: My question is, what is this Lagrangian, what does it describe, and how do I find it?
  43. E

    Lagrangian: singularity in inverted pendulum EoMs?

    Hi all, I'm doing some analysis of a bicycle mechanics problem and at one point the approximations I'm making mean that the problem reduces to the classic inverted pendulum. I'm very confused, as the equations I've worked out appear to have an unphysical singularity in them, and I can't see...
  44. L

    What is the Lagrangian for Electromagnetic Fields?

    Homework Statement In my notes i have the following two equations written with no explanation where thehy came from... can someone help please!? L=(u, x )= -mc\sqrt(u^{\beta} u_\beta)-\frac{q}{c}A^{\alpha}u_\alpha, L(v,r, t) = -mc^2(1-\frac{v^2}{c^2})-\phi +\frac{q}{c}vA L is...
  45. N

    Why the minima of potential of classical Lagrangian called ''vacuum expectation''?

    Please teach me this: Why the minima of potential of classical Lagrangian is called the ''vacuum expectation value of Phi(field function)''.Is it really a vacuum expectation value of field operator at the vacuum states(at this state,the potential part of classical Lagrangian equals zero)...
  46. I

    Why is the lagrangian polynomial in fields and derivatives

    I started to answer this question, and I have quite a bit an answer, but still not complete, let's say that we write a Lagrangian in QFT, which an unknown function of the scalar field \phi and its derivative \partial \phi. We can always Taylor-expand it and get: L(\phi,\partial\phi) = a + b \phi...
  47. N

    Lorentz invariant lagrangian density

    Hi, Would someone know where I can find a derivation of the lorentz-invariant lagrangian density? This lagrangian often pops-up in books and papers and they take it for granted, but I was actually wondering if there's a "simple" derivation somewhere... Or does it take a whole theory and...
  48. K

    How to Solve Complex Integrals in Lagrangian Mechanics?

    Homework Statement Trying to solve a Lagrangian, got down this integral. Unfortunately the zeroth-solution isn't good enough since the constant k is close to 1 for our experimental set-up. \int_{0}^{x}dx(\frac{xsin(x)}{1+kcos^2(x)}})^\frac{1}{2} Any hints? I'm not sure where to get...
  49. B

    Solving a Lagrangian using an Ansatz

    We were working on some Lagrangian and trying to solve it using an ansatz. Due to some problems in the results we got, we started to doubt the correctness of the method in use. Here is a very simple Lagrangian which shows the problem very easily: L=\frac{1}{2}\dot{x}^{2}-gx We took m=1 for the...
  50. C

    Gauge Theory - differentiatin a Lagrangian

    Hi, Hope some one can help me with a problem I am working on: It involves working out: \frac{\delta L}{\delta A_\nu} of the following Lagrangian: L=\frac{1}{4}F_{\mu\nu}F^{\mu\nu} + \frac{1}{2} (D_{\mu} \Psi)^{*} D^{\mu}\Psi The solutions show that this is equal to: \frac{\delta...
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