Balance of the cylinder on the rod

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a physics problem involving a vertical rod and a cylinder with a perpendicular rod attached. The scenario describes the balance of forces and torques when a force is applied to the edge of the perpendicular rod, leading to a state of rest for the system. Participants are exploring the implications of frictional forces and the conditions under which the system remains in equilibrium.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Assumption checking, Problem interpretation

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are examining the relationship between frictional forces and the geometry of the setup, questioning how to derive additional equations from the known conditions. They inquire about the magnitudes of frictional forces, the conditions under which they may reach their maximum values, and the implications of equilibrium equations.

Discussion Status

Some participants have suggested writing out the equilibrium equations to analyze the forces involved, while others have prompted consideration of torque equations. There is an ongoing exploration of the problem without a clear consensus on the next steps or solutions.

Contextual Notes

The original poster notes that the problem is not found in any textbook and emphasizes the uniqueness of the scenario. They express uncertainty about the completeness of their equations, indicating a potential gap in available information or assumptions that may need to be clarified.

Innoko
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It is told, that all homework-like threads should be posted there. So, here I go.
Imagine such a situation: there is a vertical rod and a cylinder, with the hole diameter sightly larger than the diameter of rod. There is also a second rod, attached to the cylinder perpendicularly. There is a friction between the main rod and the cylinder. It is known, that if we put a cylinder on the rod (watch picture) and apply a force at the edge of the second rod, the system stays rest, i.e. there is lack of rotational and translational motion in it.
On the picture frictional forces are colored with red, normal forces with green.
attachment.php?attachmentid=44192&stc=1&d=1329845120.jpg

The question is:
-What can we say about frictional forces in the system, if the geometry of the problem is fully known?
-Can we find their quantities, if the mass of the cylinder and the force applied are known?
-Can we answer at least a qualitative question: which one is bigger - applied to the right or to the left corner?
-May they be equal before reaching their maximal quantities (kN, where k is coefficient of friction)?
-Can it be so, that one of them is always reaches it's maximal value and the other doesn't? Under which conditions?
-Can the boundary conditions be founded?
That's clear for me, that we can write down three equitations: protections of the second Newton's law on vertical (here we can fund sum of friction forces) axis, on horizontal axis (here we from here we can clearly understand, that both normal forces are equal!) and the equation, that tells us: the total momentum is equal zero. But this way we get 3 equations with 4 variables (both frictional forces and both normal forces, which are claimed to be equal). Have you got any ideas of how can we find out one more equation?
All bodies are solid.
The force applied is vertical.
PS: it isn't some kind of a homework or other stuff. I just wonder, what is the answer and can't find it myself. You won't find this problem in any book!
PSS: Sorry for my English. Write it down, if you've found some mistakes here, but remember, that it's not the point of the conversation!
Thank you for attention!
 
Last edited:
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No ideas? (making the thread to go up)
 
The cylinder must have mass, draw it, too.
You need to answer the questions and they suggest that you might not find all forces.
Write up the equations for equilibrium you mentioned, and find out what information can be obtained of them. Consider the case when one frictional force has the maximum value, what it means on the other one.

ehild
 
Torque Equation?
 

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