Cubic and Linear Thermal Expansion.

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around thermal expansion, specifically focusing on a copper wire and an aluminum sphere. Participants are examining how temperature changes affect the length and volume of these materials, utilizing coefficients of linear and cubic expansion.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss the application of formulas for linear and cubic expansion, questioning the relevance of the diameter in the context of the wire's length change. There is also an exploration of integrating equations related to thermal expansion and addressing potential roundoff issues in calculations.

Discussion Status

Some participants have provided guidance on the integration of equations and the implications of small changes in length and volume. There is an ongoing exploration of the reasoning behind the inclusion of certain parameters in the problem statement, with no explicit consensus reached.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the problem includes specific parameters that may be intended to challenge understanding, and there is a mention of potential roundoff issues when calculating changes in length and volume.

SherlockOhms
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Homework Statement


1. a 100m long copper wire of diameter 4mm is heater from 20C to 80C. What is the change in the length of the wire?
2. a 0.2m diameter aluminium sphere is cooled from 250C to 0C. What is the change in the volume of the sphere?
The coefficients of linear and cubic expansion were given for both materials.

Homework Equations


α(L) = dL/dT(1/L)
α(V) = dV/dT(1/V)

The Attempt at a Solution


For the first question is it not just a simple substitution exercise using the formula α(L) = dL/dT(1/L)? The fact that the diameter was provided is confusing me though.
For the second question isn't it just using the second equation α(V) = dV/dT(1/V), where V will be 4/3 * (pi) * r^3 and dT is -250?
Thanks, point out any incorrect observations!
 
Last edited:
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DAPOS said:

Homework Statement


1. a 100m long copper wire of diameter 4mm is heater from 20C to 80C. What is the change in the length of the wire?
2. a 0.2m diameter aluminium sphere is cooled from 250C to 0C. What is the change in the volume of the sphere?
The coefficients of linear and cubic expansion were given for both materials.

Homework Equations


α(L) = dL/dT(1/L)
α(V) = dV/dT(1/V)


The Attempt at a Solution


For the first question is it not just a simple substitution exercise using the formula α(L) = dL/dT(1/L)? The fact that the diameter was provided is confusing me though.
For the second question isn't it just using the second equation α(V) = dV/dT(1/V), where V will be 4/3 * (pi) * r^3 and dT is -250?
Thanks, point out any incorrect observations!

Your equations are the same as

\frac{d\ln{L}}{dT}=α_L
\frac{d\ln{V}}{dT}=α_V

You need to integrate these equations with respect to T to get the change in length or volume. Usually, when you do this, there will be a roundoff issue. You need to make use of the relation ln(1+x)≈x, or the relation exp(x)-1≈x to deal with this roundoff issue.

The diameter was deliberately included in the problem statement to confuse you and to test your understanding.

Your method for solving the second question is on target, and is appropriate for the first question also.
 
Brilliant. Thanks for the help!
 
Chestermiller said:
Your equations are the same as

\frac{d\ln{L}}{dT}=α_L
\frac{d\ln{V}}{dT}=α_V

You need to integrate these equations with respect to T to get the change in length or volume. Usually, when you do this, there will be a roundoff issue. You need to make use of the relation ln(1+x)≈x, or the relation exp(x)-1≈x to deal with this roundoff issue.

The diameter was deliberately included in the problem statement to confuse you and to test your understanding.

Your method for solving the second question is on target, and is appropriate for the first question also.

Actually, would you mind explaining how that equation is integrated to give the equations which I gave above?
 
DAPOS said:
Actually, would you mind explaining how that equation is integrated to give the equations which I gave above?

These are the equations you gave above, just re-expressed mathematically.

If you integrate these equations, you get:

ln(L/Linit)L(T-Tinit)

ln(V/Vinit)V(T-Tinit)

If the change in L from its initial length is small, then you can write:

ln(L/Linit)=ln(1+(L-Linit)/Linit)≈(L-Linit)/Linit

The same goes for the change in V.
 
Chestermiller said:
These are the equations you gave above, just re-expressed mathematically.

If you integrate these equations, you get:

ln(L/Linit)L(T-Tinit)

ln(V/Vinit)V(T-Tinit)

If the change in L from its initial length is small, then you can write:

ln(L/Linit)=ln(1+(L-Linit)/Linit)≈(L-Linit)/Linit

The same goes for the change in V.
I see. Thanks for this!
 

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