Solving Motor Braking Circuit Problem in Bowling Industry

[jim hardy]

here's a formula for inductance of a coil with no iron core
http://home.earthlink.net/~jimlux/hv/wheeler.htm

Multi layer air core solenoid
L (uH) = 0.8 * a^2 * n^2 / (6*a + 9*b + 10*c )

where
a = average radius of windings
b = length of the coil
c = difference between the outer and inner radii of the coil.
all dimensions in inches

It states that it is accurate to 1% when the terms in the denominator are
about equal. This is also an equation by Wheeler. It applies as long as the
coil has a rectangular cross section..

cross checked at
http://66pacific.com/calculators/coil_calc.aspxi get ~1.45 mh for 100 turns on 4'' diameter if i typed right
200 turns would be 5.8 mh
a core would be nice
the toroid from an old computer or inverter type microwave oven seems right flavor , we're blocking high frequency transients
i'll check my junkpile

 

[H012]

Paralleling two 8's makes a 4, three a 2&2/3, etc
There's some number of ohms that'll slow the coastdown enough to upset the mechanical timing
when you try one measure the voltage across it , initial when NC contacts close.While you're there, pick up a motor run capacitor, maybe maybe 10 uf, not critical should be cheap i bought a 10 yesterday for $3.

We never established unambiguously at which contacts you see the arcing on motor stop - middle NC's or outside NO's ?
If you can see arcing on NC's when they close , we at least have a visible indication of any improvement we make.

Might be worth trying to limit rate of voltage rise across motor in interval between NC's open and NC's close, also during contact bounce time
View attachment 103603
that'd be your motor run cap in red... resistor sees 1/4 amp continuous so should be a couple watts to stay cool

i tend to study things to death
you are where you can see what's going on
so don't hesitate to apprise us of anything you notice !
...

just noticed
Aha 1.5 ohms main winding ? We should be able to add at least that much which could halve your surge current
question is what's max we can add before motor coasts too far? We have to stay well below that.
....
Figuring Inductance is a little tougher, we'll have to estimate how many volts it has to hold back for how many microseconds.

If we say it only has to hold off 150 volts for a millisecond while contacts stop bouncing
and limit current rise to 30 amps while that millisecond elapses
then we have di/dt = 30 amps per millisecond = 30ka/second
at 150 volts
e = L X di/dt
so
L = 150 / 30,000 = 5 millihenries
we were perhaps ⅓ of the way there with your 100 turn coil
and 30 amps wouldn't have shook the coil very hard

did you notice any change in sparks ?

<<<<<<<<<<end chasing too many 'thought rabbits' at once..>>>>>>>> for now

Jim I have 3 of these. 2.7, 3.0 and 8.2 25% The 50 watt were outragous in price not to mention their size.

 

[H012]

Jim I have 3 of these. 2.7, 3.0 and 8.2 25% The 50 watt were outragous in price not to mention their size.

I will check I have some run caps not sure of their capacitance

 

[jim hardy]

Jim I have 3 of these. 2.7, 3.0 and 8.2 25% The 50 watt were outragous in price not to mention their size.

Since they only carry current during coastdown they can be less wattage than 6 amps continuous would require .

If you can see sparks on the NC's that's our best quick indication of improvement .

Try them all one at a time and see if coastdown gets longer, question is " does the thing still stop in right place...?."
If it tolerates 8 ohms that should help contact life considerably !
If you can read voltage across caps during coastdown before and after it'll tell us how much we changed braking current.

Then i guess we'd have to outfit a machine with one, install a new relay and run it for the usual life of a relay, inspect contacts to see if we reduced erosion.

If you can see sparking that's great, we can try the resistor- capacitor snubber across motor and see right away.
If you can't see sparking we could try that long term test on another machine.

Another "poor man's" test equipment is an el-cheapo AM pocket radio set between stations. It'll pick up any arcing.
You might get a clue to the intensity of arcing from how much static you hear at relay operate time. A bad contact will likely make static all the time it's conducting.
We use that in the power plant for surveying big motors, when they start to develop corona they get "transistor-radio-active" .

I envy you this experimenting, how far are you from Northeast Arkansas ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardy,_Arkansas

 

[H012]

Since they only carry current during coastdown they can be less wattage than 6 amps continuous would require .

If you can see sparks on the NC's that's our best quick indication of improvement .

Try them all one at a time and see if coastdown gets longer, question is " does the thing still stop in right place...?."
If it tolerates 8 ohms that should help contact life considerably !
If you can read voltage across caps during coastdown before and after it'll tell us how much we changed braking current.

Then i guess we'd have to outfit a machine with one, install a new relay and run it for the usual life of a relay, inspect contacts to see if we reduced erosion.

If you can see sparking that's great, we can try the resistor- capacitor snubber across motor and see right away.
If you can't see sparking we could try that long term test on another machine.

Another "poor man's" test equipment is an el-cheapo AM pocket radio set between stations. It'll pick up any arcing.
You might get a clue to the intensity of arcing from how much static you hear at relay operate time. A bad contact will likely make static all the time it's conducting.
We use that in the power plant for surveying big motors, when they start to develop corona they get "transistor-radio-active" .

I envy you this experimenting, how far are you from Northeast Arkansas ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardy,_Arkansas

I'm in New Jersey. I'm from smokey moutain region of Tenn. Me and my wife are out of here in 3yrs. max! Hate it here but work is good. Cost of living is outragous!. Ok will give resistors a shot. Got to do machine maitenance first.

 

[jim hardy]

Got to do machine maitenance first.

You're talking to a retired maintenance man...

i really hope this helps out

Fair Anne and I and I considered East Tennessee for retirement
but settled in the Ozarks

Further west we get the better we like it
when i cross that Mississippi bridge in Memphis i start to get that "far from the madding crowd" feeling.
It really kicks in about Laramie Wyoming.

 

[H012]

You're talking to a retired maintenance man...

i really hope this helps out

Fair Anne and I and I considered East Tennessee for retirement
but settled in the Ozarks

Further west we get the better we like it
when i cross that Mississippi bridge in Memphis i start to get that "far from the madding crowd" feeling.
It really kicks in about Laramie Wyoming.

That's how my wife JoAnn and I feel too. Had enough raising kids and yes the rat race
Too. Anyway got a full house here at work. I will try later to get the resistor in. Got to solder 12 inch wire on each end off resistor
To reach into wire duct.

 

[H012]

I still think our trouble stems from closing a switch(NC contacts) between a power source(motor) and discharged capacitors(those 500uf's)

the surge current is less than i thought else it would have shaken your coil
but it flows through contacts that are in the process of closing and aren't fully made
think of your motor as a generator and those capacitors as its load. Capacitive inrush is i think our trouble.

What's the "make" current rating of that relay contact?so i'd like to limit the inrush to those capacitors

do you think we could experiment with some impedance where we showed it, and see if it slows the coastdown too much ?

Inductance has the appeal of elegance, but i do suffer from idealism
two or three ohms of resistance might do the trick
as Svein and Tom.G have suggested
@Tom.G thoughts?

Hey Jim can you help with the resistor location. The C1 33 to TS 12 is the table. Could you show where using the sweep schematic?. Thanks

 

[jim hardy]

Could you show where using the sweep schematic?. Thanks

somewhere in the pink line
in place of that wire from C1-23N to TS-27
or C1-23N to whichever terminal that is on the S relay, 10 or 32

Schematic shows a wire between relay S terminals 2, 4 and 5
that could be a convenient place if you can see clearly how they accomplished their wiring,
just be careful , you don't want it on the wrong side of terminal 4 !
if there's a single wire on 5 find its other end, hopefully it's a short jumper to 4&2. ( with a single wire from one of those to C1-22J , that's how i woulda done it. )

even between junction of capacitors and centertap of resistor would be okay

schematics don't look a lot like the physical machine, do they ... Got a cellphone picture of it you could upload ?

old jim

 

[jim hardy]

gonna try to reload touchpad driver - back in a while

old jim

got it downloaded but windows won't recognize it, ... what else is new.

anyhow approaching bedtime here, looking forward to your results

 

[H012]

somewhere in the pink line
in place of that wire from C1-23N to TS-27
or C1-23N to whichever terminal that is on the S relay, 10 or 32
View attachment 103634

Schematic shows a wire between relay S terminals 2, 4 and 5
that could be a convenient place if you can see clearly how they accomplished their wiring,
just be careful , you don't want it on the wrong side of terminal 4 !
if there's a single wire on 5 find its other end, hopefully it's a short jumper to 4&2. ( with a single wire from one of those to C1-22J ) that's how i woulda done it.

even between junction of capacitors and centertap of resistor would be okay

schematics don't look a lot like the physical machine, do they ... Got a cellphone picture of it you could upload ?

old jim

Hell no! It doesn't look close HaHa. Never does. Bet you've seen your share of wiring
Nightmares. Yes I will get a picture not sure if I can fit it all in one picture.

 

[Tom.G]

@H012 When you get a chance, would you tell us the make & model of the old style, open frame, relay that was originally in the circuit? We are still trying to track down some ambiguities/inconsistencies into the root cause(s) of your problem. Thanks.

 

[H012]

@H012 When you get a chance, would you tell us the make & model of the old style, open frame, relay that was originally in the circuit? We are still trying to track down some ambiguities/inconsistencies into the root cause(s) of your problem. Thanks.

I have no idea what the model number they are. I can look on one when I go to work today at 3 pm. These relays are obsolete and I'm phasing them out as OSHA won't allow any open frame design be used unless it's a totally enclosed, which in the case of the chassis on the machine that has the relays is not enclosed. I will send a photo also. I know they are Allen Bradley. Thanks

 

[H012]

I have no idea what the model number they are. I can look on one when I go to work today at 3 pm. These relays are obsolete and I'm phasing them out as OSHA won't allow any open frame design be used unless it's a totally enclosed, which in the case of the chassis on the machine that has the relays is not enclosed. I will send a photo also. I know they are Allen Bradley. Thanks

I am concentrating on the sweep because the sweep starts and stops 3 times unlike the table which starts and stops once. If you would be interested you can go on you tube and search AMF 8270 or 8290 pinspotter I'm sure you can see how it functions.This would be just FYI

 

[H012]

@H012 When you get a chance, would you tell us the make & model of the old style, open frame, relay that was originally in the circuit? We are still trying to track down some ambiguities/inconsistencies into the root cause(s) of your problem. Thanks.

They are Allen Bradley 700-C220X10

 

[H012]

somewhere in the pink line
in place of that wire from C1-23N to TS-27
or C1-23N to whichever terminal that is on the S relay, 10 or 32
View attachment 103634

Schematic shows a wire between relay S terminals 2, 4 and 5
that could be a convenient place if you can see clearly how they accomplished their wiring,
just be careful , you don't want it on the wrong side of terminal 4 !
if there's a single wire on 5 find its other end, hopefully it's a short jumper to 4&2. ( with a single wire from one of those to C1-22J , that's how i woulda done it. )

even between junction of capacitors and centertap of resistor would be okay

schematics don't look a lot like the physical machine, do they ... Got a cellphone picture of it you could upload ?

old jim

OK Jim put 8 ohm resistor in place between cap and resistor. Braking unchanged it's OK
Voltage at C1 24 and return unchanged voltage drop off is still quick when running

 

[jim hardy]

OK Jim put 8 ohm resistor in place between cap and resistor.
Did i draw it in the right place ?Braking unchanged it's OK
That bodes very well , and i must admit to mild surprise bur tremendous relief

Voltage at C1 24 and return unchanged voltage drop off is still quick when running
Okay, take a look we'd expect no change there

During braking, motor's main winding current flows along blue line into new resistor then splits. half going through each capacitor to 115 return.
The half that turns right into CSM2 has a straight shot out other side to 115 return
the half that turns left into CSM1 meanders back through C1-24T then contacts 3-8 of S relay to 115 return.

If i understand the circuit,
Voltage at C1-23N should behave like this
At motor start it will jump up to the 22 VAC/(41DC?) you measured in post #70
(question mark on DC reading is because i think it should be random how much DC you see there, if it's always 41DC i don't understand why _{(but that's not unusual )} )
then it will drop to zero as soon as motor reaches speed causing CS to open
when STOP signal de-energizes relay S
allowing its NC contacts to close
voltage will return to C1-23N , and the amount will be whatever the motor makes as an induction generator. That voltage will fade as energy id drained from the motor's inertia.
The resistor should affect rate of energy drain from motor, but how much ? I don't know(the 3 words men fear most).

That resistor HAD to lower the instantaneous current flow into the capacitors, making life easier for your NC contacts.
Since we don't have a 'scope with transient current capture, and my coil didn't tell us anything, we're flying kinda bindIf you can get a reading at C1-23N during a motor braking cycle, we'll divide that by (8 - j 2.65) and figure the amps during braking. (8 is the new resistor you inserted in the circuit...? )
I'm dying of curiosity how much current flows and for how long
That won't tell us the initial current spike but it gives a clue about the motor's behavior, i never did any such experiments and find this interesting

I would suggest
Write this experiment down and put a note inside the machine for the next guy so he'll know what you did
put in a new relay
Surely you know what is average life of these relay contacts?
After say 2/3 of that life, take that relay out and see if we've slowed contact erosion ?

Svein? Tom.G ? Thoughts ?
Kudos to both of you guys , this just might work ! I thought for sure we'd extend coastdown time and de-synchronize the machine.

Keep our fingers crossed this machine runs okay with the extra braking resistor.

HO12 - do you have a contact at AMF ?
Ask him this question, in your own words..

Dear Sir:
We experience short contact life on the AB relays used in model (whichever) Pinsetter and Sweeper
in particular the NC contacts on these relay models
Allen Bradley 700-C220X10
and its replacement
Allen Bradley 700-CF220J
which are used to brake an induction motor by essentially short circuiting it as an induction generator.
We have reason to believe di/dt on contact closure is higher than expected and erodes contact material during contact bounce on make
so we have three questions:
1. What is maximun di'dt for that relay contact on make?
2. What is published subtransient reactance of the motor ? It bears part number (whatever it is)
3. Does motor manufacturer publish, or would you get from his engineering department , estimates of on subtransient fault current available from the motor and initial rate of current rise (di/dt) ?
4. If our suspicion proves correct, transient current erodes the contacts causing premature failure, can you suggest protection for the relay contacts ? This is an industry wide maintenance headache with these machines.

We have equipped one machine with 8 ohms of resistance in series with the braking current path (insert sketch from this post, above).
Coastdown time seems unaffected and we measure (?) amperes of braking current . We will check the relay for contact erosion after ( how many cycles or months ?)

Please advise,

.......



The higher up their organization you send it the better will be the answer you get. I'd find the VP of marketing for AMF bowling products, start at their website and look for "Investor relations - executive team"

If the owner of your company will co-sign with you it'd help.

Lastly, is there an industry magazine you guys read?
In the power plant we loved "Power"magazine because of one regular feature-
a fictional troubleshooter by the name of "Marmaduke Surfaceblow" solved some sticky engineering problem every month
we enjoyed them because they were taken from real events submitted by readers and the writer painted such colorful characters... We young guys all wanted to be confident and blustery and always right like Marmaduke.
http://www.digplanet.com/wiki/Marmaduke_Surfaceblow

Marmaduke Surfaceblow is a fictional engineer. His globe-girdling engineering adventures written by http://www.digplanet.com/wiki/Stephen_Michael_Elonka first appeared in Power Magazine in 1948.http://www.digplanet.com/wiki/Marmaduke_Surfaceblow#cite_note-1

Marmaduke is a marine engineer with vast knowledge of machinery. He works out of an office over O'Houlihan's Machine Shop in the http://www.digplanet.com/wiki/Hell%27s_Kitchen,_Manhattan area of http://www.digplanet.com/wiki/New_York_City . His imposing 6 ft 4 in stature is described in every story along with his steelbrush moustache and size 16 "canal boat" shoes. Surfaceblow smokes Ringelmann #5 cigarshttp://www.digplanet.com/wiki/Marmaduke_Surfaceblow#cite_note-2 that produce acrid clouds leaving others teary-eyed.

If this works you'll want to get the word out to other maintenance men like yourself, submit an article to your trade magazine, editors love real world submissions from the field.

old jim

PS what's voltage at C1-23N when it brakes ? _______

 

[H012]

View attachment 103679

During braking, motor's main winding current flows along blue line into new resistor then splits. half going through each capacitor to 115 return.
The half that turns right into CSM2 has a straight shot out other side to 115 return
the half that turns left into CSM1 meanders back through C1-24T then contacts 3-8 of S relay to 115 return.

If i understand the circuit,
Voltage at C1-23N should behave like this
At motor start it will jump up to the 22 VAC/(41DC?) you measured in post #70
(question mark on DC reading is because i think it should be random how much DC you see there, if it's always 41DC i don't understand why _{(but that's not unusual )} )
then it will drop to zero as soon as motor reaches speed causing CS to open
when STOP signal de-energizes relay S
allowing its NC contacts to close
voltage will return to C1-23N , and the amount will be whatever the motor makes as an induction generator. That voltage will fade as energy id drained from the motor's inertia.
The resistor should affect rate of energy drain from motor, but how much ? I don't know(the 3 words men fear most).

That resistor HAD to lower the instantaneous current flow into the capacitors, making life easier for your NC contacts.
Since we don't have a 'scope with transient current capture, and my coil didn't tell us anything, we're flying kinda bindIf you can get a reading at C1-23N during a motor braking cycle, we'll divide that by (8 - j 2.65) and figure the amps during braking. (8 is the new resistor you inserted in the circuit...? )
I'm dying of curiosity how much current flows and for how long
That won't tell us the initial current spike but it gives a clue about the motor's behavior, i never did any such experiments and find this interesting

I would suggest
Write this experiment down and put a note inside the machine for the next guy so he'll know what you did
put in a new relay
Surely you know what is average life of these relay contacts?
After say 2/3 of that life, take that relay out and see if we've slowed contact erosion ?

Svein? Tom.G ? Thoughts ?
Kudos to both of you guys , this just might work ! I thought for sure we'd extend coastdown time and de-synchronize the machine.

Keep our fingers crossed this machine runs okay with the extra braking resistor.

HO12 - do you have a contact at AMF ?
Ask him this question, in your own words..

Dear Sir:
We experience short contact life on the AB relays used in model (whichever) Pinsetter and Sweeper
in particular the NC contacts on these relay models
Allen Bradley 700-C220X10
and its replacement
Allen Bradley 700-CF220J
which are used to brake an induction motor by essentially short circuiting it as an induction generator.
We have reason to believe di/dt on contact closure is higher than expected and erodes contact material during contact bounce on make
so we have three questions:
1. What is maximun di'dt for that relay contact on make?
2. What is published subtransient reactance of the motor ? It bears part number (whatever it is)
3. Does motor manufacturer publish, or would you get from his engineering department , estimates of on subtransient fault current available from the motor and initial rate of current rise (di/dt) ?
4. If our suspicion proves correct, transient current erodes the contacts causing premature failure, can you suggest protection for the relay contacts ? This is an industry wide maintenance headache with these machines.

We have equipped one machine with 8 ohms of resistance in series with the braking current path (insert sketch from this post, above).
Coastdown time seems unaffected and we measure (?) amperes of braking current . We will check the relay for contact erosion after ( how many cycles or months ?)

Please advise,

.......
The higher up their organization you send it the better will be the answer you get. I'd find the VP of marketing for AMF bowling products, start at their website and look for "Investor relations - executive team"

If the owner of your company will co-sign with you it'd help.

Lastly, is there an industry magazine you guys read?
In the power plant we loved "Power"magazine because of one regular feature-
a fictional troubleshooter by the name of "Marmaduke Surfaceblow" solved some sticky engineering problem every month
we enjoyed them because they were taken from real events submitted by readers and the writer painted such colorful characters... We young guys all wanted to be confident and blustery and always right like Marmaduke.
http://www.digplanet.com/wiki/Marmaduke_Surfaceblow
If this works you'll want to get the word out to other maintenance men like yourself, submit an article to your trade magazine, editors love real world submissions from the field.

old jim

PS what's voltage at C1-23N when it brakes ? _______

I will check voltage during breaking at c1 23.
I did speak with head of facilities sometime back and he spoke to engineering and was told they weren't aware of the issue at hand. I said then no one is listening in the field. But that is what happens when a company is also a partner with the company that sells the parts. Did you see the pic in reply to Tom
With relay.

 

[H012]

I also have to suspect the quality of the new relays those open style contacts are more robust then those in the new enclosed type.

 

[jim hardy]

I did speak with head of facilities sometime back and he spoke to engineering and was told they weren't aware of the issue at hand. I said then no one is listening in the field. But that is what happens when a company is also a partner with the company that sells the parts.

From the bottom it's hard to get attention
My old mentor said "Always start at the top"
but if you're going to ping the bureaucracy at that level you have to be doggone sure you're right
your best leverage so far is the photo of eroded contacts and the measurement of braking current you're about to make.
Do you guys have access to a storage oscilloscope ? A photo of voltage trace at C1-23N during braking would show rate of current rise. You'd want two, one showing the whole coastdown and another showing first half cycle.
If that's not possible,
wait until that relay has accumulated enough cycles to have killed it were your mod not there, examine its contacts, if it's not eroded badly you have proof that limiting braking current transient improves contact life and they have a design problem.

Got a picture of your resistor installed ?

I did see the picture of the two relays - one is a siemens-allis ?

I too prefer open relays, my plant used Westinghouse BF's. Trouble with them is during construction little pieces of wire insulation and pieces of Ty-Wrap that the electricians cut off fall into the open contacts and keep them from closing...

 

[H012]

From the bottom it's hard to get attention
My old mentor said "Always start at the top"
but if you're going to ping the bureaucracy at that level you have to be doggone sure you're right
your best leverage so far is the photo of eroded contacts and the measurement of braking current you're about to make.
Do you guys have access to a storage oscilloscope ? A photo of voltage trace at C1-23N during braking would show rate of current rise. You'd want two, one showing the whole coastdown and another showing first half cycle.
If that's not possible,
wait until that relay has accumulated enough cycles to have killed it were your mod not there, examine its contacts, if it's not eroded badly you have proof that limiting braking current transient improves contact life and they have a design problem.

Got a picture of your resistor installed ?

I did see the picture of the two relays - one is a siemens-allis ?

I too prefer open relays, my plant used Westinghouse BF's. Trouble with them is during construction little pieces of wire insulation and pieces of Ty-Wrap that the electricians cut off fall into the open contacts and keep them from closing...

One pic is resistor and the other pic is wire to cap. Got to stuff everything into duct.

 

[Tom.G]

OK Jim put 8 ohm resistor in place between cap and resistor. Braking unchanged it's OK
Voltage at C1 24 and return unchanged voltage drop off is still quick when running

Did installing the resistor have any effect on the contact arcing?

 

[jim hardy]

Friday night ... i bet the place is packed and he's swamped.

 

[Tom.G]

If you zoom in on this photo from Post #7, you will note at the left contact that the substrate metal is discolored from overheating. That would indicate either low contact pressure (faulty relay), contanimints (oil or particulate matter) or significant overcurrent. For arcing to cause that, there would have to be sustained arcing or highly repetitive arcing.

Side comment:
Many years ago I was on a project for electric trains, not the toys, the big ones like subways and rapid transit. At one point we had a batch of relays that would quite literally explode on contact closure. Close them into an 1200A load and there was a fireball and shrapnel everywhere. These were typical open frame construction with a return spring to open the contacts upon removing coil power and the movable contacts spring loaded on the armature. I finally tracked down the difference between the 'good ' and 'bad' batches to the spring that mounted the movable contacts on the armature. The bad batch had a weaker spring, hence lower contact pressure. Of course the relay mfg. was "informed." After a few days the mfg. reported back to us that it was an inventory problem on their part. Somebody and put the the wrong springs in the parts bin for that assembly line. I always wondered how many pieces were in that batch!

 

[jim hardy]

I've been digging for how to estimate subtransient reactance of induction motors.

Sparse...

Here's an article that mentions it, see page 12 of 14
http://people.physics.anu.edu.au/~bdb112/engn3225/Chapter_04_Motors_revA.pdf
i'm thinking six to ten X FLA should be the initial braking current spike into those capacitors ..
6 amp motor, 36 to 60 amp spikes, 10 amp relay contacts rated for 3X that much make current = 30 amps,
do you think that might erode them ? I doubt it's enough to weld them...

The over heating - I'm at a loss there.

old jim

 

[jim hardy]

Many years ago I was on a project for electric trains, not the toys, the big ones like subways and rapid transit. At one point we had a batch of relays that would quite literally explode on contact closure. Close them into an 1200A load and there was a fireball and shrapnel everywhere.

copper vapor follows same gas law as dynamite vapor ?

 

[Tom.G]

When you are talking of upwards of a thousand HP across the area of relay contacts poorly connected to each other, YES! There was a thick (2 inch?) Plexiglass shield between it and us.

 

[sophiecentaur]

I tried a solid state relay they didn't last long at all.

Perhaps the spec of your SSR was just not high enough?? Peak Volts can be very high when switching Inductive loads.
Washing machines have enormous SS switches which control the input power. That, to me, suggests you should expect to find a SS solution to this problem.

 

[jim hardy]

One pic is resistor and the other pic is wire to cap.

hmm top resistor is table and bottom one sweep ?

 

[H012]

hmm top resistor is table and bottom one sweep ?

Yes bottom is sweep