News Will Palin's VP Debate Performance Impact McCain's Campaign?

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The discussion centers around John McCain's selection of Sarah Palin as his vice presidential candidate in the 2008 election. Participants express mixed reactions to her nomination, noting her limited experience as the governor of Alaska and questioning whether her gender will attract disenchanted Hillary Clinton supporters. There is speculation about Palin's appeal to female voters and potential strategies to counter Barack Obama’s campaign. Concerns are raised about her qualifications and the implications of having a less experienced candidate on the ticket, especially given McCain's age and health issues. The conversation also touches on the broader themes of gender in politics, the effectiveness of her candidacy in swaying voters, and the potential for her to energize conservative bases. Overall, the selection is viewed as a strategic move, but opinions vary on its effectiveness and implications for the election.
  • #301
Ivan Seeking said:
But most of all, how can anyone trust his judgement after this? Palin is not even in the same league as Obama or Biden, and I think this will be painfully clear soon enough.

He was behind on the scoreboard and he went for a Hail Sarah shot deep down field.
 
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  • #302
Will Palin be kicked off the ticket? (Er, withdraw for personal reasons...) She's being investigated for firing Alaska's Public Safety Director, because, it is said, he refused to fire her ex brother-in-law (a state trooper). It has come out that when she was mayor of her little fiefdom she insisted that each of the town's managers submit their resignations. The head librarian refused, but eventually relented. The police chief refused, so she fired him.

http://www.washingtonindependent.com/3767/palin-involved-in-ousting-scandals-from-the-start

How much more stuff needs to dribble out before Palin regretfully withdraws from the rigors of a national campaign to spend more time with her special-needs infant? Will she need to spend time with her pregnant daughter, who will certainly need some guidance and hand-holding if she is going to weather the heavy scrutiny she's been subjected to, and start a new life as a mother and wife?

McCain's choice of Palin has buried the issues that the GOP needs to define to differentiate McCain from Bush. Her constant presence in the national news (even over a holiday weekend dominated by a hurricane) does not seem like such a good thing for the McCain campaign. Is she on the way out?
 
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  • #303
Gokul43201 said:
Seems not to have been the case. Never attribute to ... you know.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26501863/page/1
or to an unidentified source-report from the DNC network.
 
  • #304
We got Comedy Central running here, don't we?

There must be at least a half a dozen other independent stories like that all over the radio/TV. I just watched an interview with another reporter that said essentially the same thing about the vetting process.
 
  • #306
Why is it that Republicans constantly try to do nothing but slime slime slime with nothing to back their claims and at the same time are hypocrites of what they complain about.
 
  • #307
This was the http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20080902/pl_politico/13084;_ylt=Agjy93i5JZFhbESJLxAB7SMb.3QA in preparation for the 2006 Gubernatorial election.

‘We want to see Ivana,’ said Palin, who admittedly smells like salmon for a large part of the summer, ‘because we are so desperate in Alaska for any semblance of glamour and culture.’

I think that last item of information pretty much had the Democratic candidate shaking in his mukluks. Personally, I preferred the aroma of DEET over salmon, but each to their own.
 
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  • #308
All in all, the Palin coverage has reached bizarre levels.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080902/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_palin_politics;_ylt=Au6EoVz2_blHXbBXCEgDjZqyFz4D
The Miami Herald this week quoted an e-mail from Obama Florida spokesman Mark Bubriski that stated: "Palin was a supporter of Pat Buchanan, a right-winger or as many Jews call him: a Nazi sympathizer."

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/republican_race/2008/09/01/2008-09-01_bristol_palins_pregnancy_was_an_open_sec.html (with photos of Levi Johnston :smile:)

Johnston, broad-chested and wearing a No. 15 jersey, can be seen in photographs hitting the boards as a Warrior in action. A closeup shot shows the handsome teen with a light dusting of whiskers on his chin - his dark brown hair curly and wet.
 
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  • #309
BobG said:
Johnston, broad-chested and wearing a No. 15 jersey, can be seen in photographs hitting the boards as a Warrior in action. A closeup shot shows the handsome teen with a light dusting of whiskers on his chin - his dark brown hair curly and wet.

Nothing beats some slightly erotic political coverage!
 
  • #310
It is amusing how the liberal crowd, the crowd that promotes liberalism in morals and government, the crowd that promotes abortion to lesson the results of promiscuity and pre-marital sex, the crowd that loves the short marriages forged by the liberal Hollywood sleaze, the crowd that forgives the live-togethers as long as they are famous people...how this crowd can be so hypocritical as to condemn a seventeen year old to shame for becoming pregnant or her parents for supporting her.

I think the true seed of disgust to the liberals in this overblown drama is that she decided to keep the child instead of killing it for convenience.
 
  • #311
BobG said:
All in all, the Palin coverage has reached bizarre levels.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080902/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_palin_politics;_ylt=Au6EoVz2_blHXbBXCEgDjZqyFz4D


http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/republican_race/2008/09/01/2008-09-01_bristol_palins_pregnancy_was_an_open_sec.html (with photos of Levi Johnston :smile:)

Whoa whao whoa, you're missing the good stuff...

Doe-eyed Bristol Palin, 17, and ruggedly handsome Levi Johnston, an 18-year-old self-described "f---in' redneck," have been dating a year, locals in Wasilla, Alaska, told the Daily News.

And the pregnancy? An open secret in the close-knit town of 9,780.

An OPEN secret? Does that even make sense...

As a voter, I demand this tramp go to Maury Pavitch and we find out whose the babies daddy.
 
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  • #312
BobG said:
All in all, the Palin coverage has reached bizarre levels.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080902/ap_on_el_pr/cvn_palin_politics;_ylt=Au6EoVz2_blHXbBXCEgDjZqyFz4D
I can see people - especially Jews, as they are most sensitive to the subject - figuring Buchanan for a Nazi sympathizer after reading his book very quickly. If I recall correctly, Buchanan asserts that millions of Jews would not have been killed had the US (or England?) not entered the war and provoked Hitler... or something similar.

Anyway, going with the Nazi sympathizer route is stupid, when there's the much clearer women's rights stands that Buchanan has taken. Not as effective in FL, maybe, but more firmly rooted in fact.
 
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  • #313
Cyrus said:
Whoa whao whoa, you're missing the good stuff...



An OPEN secret? Does that even make sense...

As a voter, I demand this tramp go to Maury Pavitch and we find out whose the babies daddy.
See what I mean? This is both amusing and revealing.

BTW, " ...find out whose the babies daddy" makes no sense at all. I'm sure we all got the message but who's the baby's daddy has already been revealed. I'm betting that both the baby's mother and father have better command of the English language than do you.
 
  • #314
isly ilwott said:
It is amusing how the liberal crowd, the crowd that promotes liberalism in morals and government, the crowd that promotes abortion to lesson the results of promiscuity and pre-marital sex, the crowd that loves the short marriages forged by the liberal Hollywood sleaze, the crowd that forgives the live-togethers as long as they are famous people...how this crowd can be so hypocritical as to condemn a seventeen year old to shame for becoming pregnant or her parents for supporting her.

I think the true seed of disgust to the liberals in this overblown drama is that she decided to keep the child instead of killing it for convenience.

Specifically: Who did this? I haven't heard anyone criticize her for keeping the baby.

I do criticize her mother for [allegely] opposing sex education in schools. If true, that is like a throw back to the dark ages. In fact, that is a good way to end up with a pregnant, seventeen year old daughter!
 
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  • #315
isly ilwott said:
See what I mean? This is both amusing and revealing.

BTW, " ...find out whose the babies daddy" makes no sense at all. I'm sure we all got the message but who's the baby's daddy has already been revealed. I'm betting that both the baby's mother and father have better command of the English language than do you.

Oh brother... it's called a joke. You are totally clueless, man.


Look at you...I think you got something brown on your nose from the Palin family. Why are you so defensive of them? There not your family.
 
  • #316
Ivan Seeking said:
Specifically: Who did this? I haven't heard anyone criticize her for keeping the baby.

I do criticize her mother for [allegely] opposing sex education in schools. If true, that is like a throw back to the dark ages.
Anyone that continues to draw attention to it as a scare-off tactic, anyone that condemns Sarah Palin or labels her a hypocrit for what her daughter did, the MSM in pursuit of ratings in exploiting the tabloid facet of teen pregnancy, anyone that speaks of it in a smirky, holier-than-thou tone, anyone that promotes it as reason not to support Palin...&c.

You may notice that my opinion regarding the root cause is stated as an opinion. "I think" should not be inferred to mean "I have proof".

I think Palin would likely garner some votes from liberals if she'd have encouraged and covered up an abortion for a her daughter, taking the easy way out. Liberals seem comfortable with hypocrisy.
 
  • #317
isly ilwott said:
It is amusing how the liberal crowd, the crowd that promotes liberalism in morals and government, the crowd that promotes abortion to lesson the results of promiscuity and pre-marital sex, the crowd that loves the short marriages forged by the liberal Hollywood sleaze, the crowd that forgives the live-togethers as long as they are famous people...how this crowd can be so hypocritical as to condemn a seventeen year old to shame for becoming pregnant or her parents for supporting her.

You should be more specific than that.

P.S. I would better die than living in your society :smile:
 
  • #318
isly ilwott said:
I think Palin would likely garner some votes from liberals if she'd have encouraged and covered up an abortion for a her daughter, taking the easy way out. Liberals seem comfortable with hypocrisy.

There you go again. Just loving the taste of that shoe, every post you make. YUMMMMMM.
 
  • #319
Cyrus said:
How do you breathe with your head so far up your butt?

Seriously, this post is nothing but insulting and your own propoganda against democrats.

Come on, "the crowd that loves the short marriages forged by the liberal Hollywood sleaze" ...seriously? Are you seriously going to claim this? If so, just go for a walk and come back when you can make an actual point or complaint.

You must like the taste of shoe, because you keep putting that foot in your big mouth.
Are you saying that Hollywood is not a liberal cess pool?

Try to come back with some well expressed facts.
 
  • #320
If the tone of this thread doesn't calm down, action will be taken.
 
  • #321
isly ilwott said:
It is amusing how the liberal crowd, the crowd that promotes liberalism in morals and government, the crowd that promotes abortion to lesson the results of promiscuity and pre-marital sex, the crowd that loves the short marriages forged by the liberal Hollywood sleaze, the crowd that forgives the live-togethers as long as they are famous people...how this crowd can be so hypocritical as to condemn a seventeen year old to shame for becoming pregnant or her parents for supporting her.
Perhaps you'd like to support this assertion first?

And incidentally, if there's anyone forging short marriages they are probably more accurately described as Southern Republican sleaze.

The top 13 states with the highest divorce rates all voted for Bush ... both times.

Code:
#1  	Nevada:	        7.1 	
#2  	Arkansas:	6.2 	
#3  	Alabama:	5.4 	
#4  	Wyoming:	5.4 	
#5  	Idaho:	        5.3 	
#6  	West Virginia:	5.2 	
#7  	Kentucky:	5.2 	
#8  	Tennessee:	5.1 	
#9  	Florida:	5.1 	
#10  	Mississippi:	4.9 	
#11  	Colorado:	4.7 	
#12  	Arizona:	4.7 	
#13  	Alaska:         4.6

California comes in at #19.

Of the 10 states with the lowest divorce rates, 8 voted for Gore in 2000 and 7 voted for Kerry in '04.

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/lif_div_rat-lifestyle-divorce-rate

I think the true seed of disgust to the liberals in this overblown drama is that she decided to keep the child instead of killing it for convenience.
I think you'd do better on a second try.

PS: When you said "...to lesson the results of promiscuity..." what exactly did you mean?
 
  • #322
isly ilwott said:
Anyone that continues to draw attention to it as a scare-off tactic, anyone that condemns Sarah Palin or labels her a hypocrit for what her daughter did, the MSM in pursuit of ratings in exploiting the tabloid facet of teen pregnancy, anyone that speaks of it in a smirky, holier-than-thou tone, anyone that promotes it as reason not to support Palin...&c.

Please do some more work. I don't think anyone is labeling Sarah Palin as hypocrite because her daughter got pregnant at the age of 17.
 
  • #323
Gokul43201 said:
Perhaps you'd like to support this assertion first?

And incidentally, if there's anyone forging short marriages they are probably more accurately described as Southern Republican sleaze.

The top 13 states with the highest divorce rates all voted for Bush ... both times.

Code:
#1  	Nevada:	        7.1 	
#2  	Arkansas:	6.2 	
#3  	Alabama:	5.4 	
#4  	Wyoming:	5.4 	
#5  	Idaho:	        5.3 	
#6  	West Virginia:	5.2 	
#7  	Kentucky:	5.2 	
#8  	Tennessee:	5.1 	
#9  	Florida:	5.1 	
#10  	Mississippi:	4.9 	
#11  	Colorado:	4.7 	
#12  	Arizona:	4.7 	
#13  	Alaska:         4.6

California comes in at #19.

Of the 10 states with the lowest divorce rates, 8 voted for Gore in 2000 and 7 voted for Kerry in '04.

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/lif_div_rat-lifestyle-divorce-rate

I think you'd do better on a second try.

PS: When you said "...to lesson the results of promiscuity..." what exactly did you mean?

Ahhh... beautiful post! :biggrin:
 
  • #324
Gokul43201 said:
I can see people - especially Jews, as they are most sensitive to the subject - figuring Buchanan for a Nazi sympathizer after reading his book very quickly. If I recall correctly, Buchanan asserts that millions of Jews would not have been killed had the US (or England?) not entered the war and provoked Hitler... or something similar.

Anyway, going with the Nazi sympathizer route is stupid, when there's the much clearer women's rights stands that Buchanan has taken. Not as effective in FL, maybe, but more firmly rooted in fact.

At least Buchanon takes these kind of things in stride (he better - half the things he says seem deliberately aimed at being outrageous). He seemed kind of amused this morning on Morning Joe.
 
  • #325
BobG said:
At least Buchanon takes these kind of things in stride (he better - half the things he says seem deliberately aimed at being outrageous). He seemed kind of amused this morning on Morning Joe.
People have not been really sensitive to his feelings, mostly because he rides rough-shod over those of others. During the 2000 election, a popular joke in Jewish circles was: Buchanan's uncle died in a Nazi prison camp... He fell out of a guard tower.

His public persona exudes right-wing "correctness" etc, and some of the the things that he says borders on hate speech, but at least he was honest enough to admit that Florida's butterfly ballot gave him thousands of votes in heavily Jewish precincts in which he was polled at getting a handful of votes.
 
  • #326
Ivan Seeking said:
I get such a kick out of listening to Rep pundits answer the following: Is Palin the most qualified person that McCain could have picked?
Do you have any examples? That doesn't seem to me to be a very probing or complicated question (but a smart pundit should have the obvious answer ready: 'No, but I think the Presidential candidate, not the VP candidate, is the one who needs a few decades of experience').

What is entertaining to me is seeing people who want it both ways. Somehow, for some, Palin's experience is a problem, but Obama's isn't. To me, on the experience issue, Obama's choice is the riskier one (as I explained in my little conversation with cyrus): People will look at the ticket and wonder why the guy with the decades of experience has his name at the bottom instead of at the top. I don't think it will assuage anyone's fears about Obama's experience. Quite the opposite, I think Obama's choice shines a spotlight on his experience problem.
The only reason for her selection that one can imagine is the fact that she's a woman.
Not the only, but a leading one.
It is sooooo transparent! In my mind, McCain just got a foot shorter.
Why? Was it supposed to be a surprise? Was it a surprise when Obama picked an old white man as his running mate? I wasn't surprised.

I would have bet a decent sum of money that McCain would pick a woman and a relatively young one at that (not that it would have been possible to pick an older one). She's younger than I expected, but I can't say I'm surprised.
 
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  • #327
russ_watters said:
Do you have any examples? That doesn't seem to me to be a very probing or complicated question.
It's not a deep question at all. But it's a question that most any person in the M-P campaign can not answer honestly. The honest answer would be that among the field of candidates in contention (Palin, Giuliani, Romney, Crist, Lieberman, Ridge, Portman, Pawlenty, Huckabee, etc.) Palin was not the person more qualified than the rest by most anyone's standards. So, rather than answer that question, they would respond with something along the lines that Palin is more qualified than Obama or Biden.

Was it supposed to be a surprise?
Yes, it was. It was the pick McCain went with after he couldn't get either of the people he wanted: Lieberman or Ridge.

Was it a surprise when Obama picked an old white mat as his running mate?
It would have been, if he picked an old white man with little qualifications to take over the place of the President.
 
  • #328
BobG said:
All in all, the Palin coverage has reached bizarre levels.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/republican_race/2008/09/01/2008-09-01_bristol_palins_pregnancy_was_an_open_sec.html (with photos of Levi Johnston :smile:)

This passage does nothing to dispel the 5th child rumor I must note:
NYDaily_News said:
On the part where it asks about children, he wrote, "I don't want kids."

Mark Okeson, the assistant principal at Wasilla High School, told the Chicago Tribune that Bristol started her junior year last fall, in the town where Sarah Palin grew up.

He said Bristol inexplicably transferred to an Anchorage high school midyear, leaving Levi behind.

"I never heard the story why," he said.

She left to transfer school the middle of last school year?
 
  • #329
russ_watters said:
Do you have any examples?

Here is one of probably half a dozen seen over the last twenty-four hours.
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2008/08/30/lkl.palin.panel.cnn?iref=videosearch

That doesn't seem to me to be a very probing or complicated question (but a smart pundit should have the obvious answer ready: 'No, but I think the Presidential candidate, not the VP candidate, is the one who needs a few decades of experience').

Given McCains age, his possible replacement is of particular concern. One can argue that Obama doesn't have enough experience, but to argue for the requirement of experience, as McCain did, and then to pick a VP who is neither an intellectual giant nor an accomplished big-league politician - to literally throw a Hail Mary pass with the future of the country - is extremely reckless. Perhaps we will all soon see that McCain had some magical insight - that she is a true phenomenon, like Obama - but at this point the chances of that appear to be vanishingly small.

What is entertaining to me is seeing people who want it both ways. Somehow, for some, Palin's experience is a problem, but Obama's isn't. To me, on the experience issue, Obama's choice is the riskier one (as I explained in my little conversation with cyrus): People will look at the ticket and wonder why the guy with the decades of experience has his name at the bottom instead of at the top. I don't think it will assuage anyone's fears about Obama's experience. Quite the opposite, I think Obama's choice shines a spotlight on his experience problem. Not the only, but a leading one. Why? Was it supposed to be a surprise? Was it a surprise when Obama picked an old white mat as his running mate? I wasn't surprised.

People recognize in Obama a once-in-a-lifetime leader. He comes with a rare and natural ability to inspire people. Given his intellect, his knowledge of the Constitution, his dedication to mostly the right side of the right issues, his rise to power in a powerful state, and esp now, given that he not only took down the Clintons but has also virtually revolutionized modern campaigning - making the contribution process more democratic than ever before - he is given a pass. He is a rare talent like none that I have seen before.

In effect I would have to agree that he doesn't have enought experience, that is, if we were considering an ordinary politician. But Obama is not an ordinary politician. In fact, by all accounts that I've heard, he was effectively drafted. As one Senator told him, [I can come up with a name but need to think about it] ~ "time sometimes selects you, and not the other way around".

Is Palin all that special? I see nothing to suggest this is the case. I do hear unbelievably inflated spin to make her more than she is. For example, McCains wife suggested that Palin has foreign policy experience, or that somehow she gets points, since Alaska is close to Russia. Frankly, some Republicans seem a bit desperate.

I would have bet a decent sum of money that McCain would pick a woman and a relatively young one at that (not that it would have been possible to pick an older one). She's younger than I expected, but I can't say I'm surprised.

Why; just to pick a woman?
 
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  • #330
isly ilwott said:
I think the true seed of disgust to the liberals in this overblown drama is that she decided to keep the child instead of killing it for convenience.

To a large degree this depends on your definition of whether life begins at conception as to whether there is any killing that goes on.

Personally I don't see it as murder, or killing, as you would characterize it. I think this is a matter of faith and in this regard I find the current Supreme Court trimester treatment adequate under law and an acceptable remedy to balance between the extreme positions on conception.
 

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