Lagrangian Definition and 1000 Threads

  1. G

    Lagrange multipliers in Lagrangian Mechanics

    Hi we covered the Lagrange multiplier method in Lagrangian Mechanics and as far as I know, is the physical meaning behind this to be able to solve either some non-holonomic constraints or to get some information about the constraint forces. my problem is, i do not know the physical meaning of...
  2. L

    Question about Geodesic Equation Derivation using Lagrangian

    I'm trying to derive the Geodesic equation, \ddot{x}^{α} + {Γ}^{α}_{βγ} \dot{x}^{β} \dot{x}^{γ} = 0. However, when I take the Lagrangian to be {L} = {g}_{γβ} \dot{x}^{γ} \dot{x}^{β}, and I'm taking \frac{\partial {L}}{\partial \dot{x}^{α}}, I don't understand why the partial derivative of...
  3. D

    How to drop terms in a Lagrangian?

    Hi guys, So textbooks have it that: "Two Lagrangians differing by a total time-derivative of a function of the coordinates are equivalent". I have no idea what that means or how to use it; so I don't know which terms I can drop from Lagrangians, which is a bit of a problem. For example...
  4. S

    Prove that a given Lagrangian is not T-V (EM field)

    Homework Statement Consider a particle of mass m and electric charge e subject to a uniform electromagnetic field (E(x,t),B(x,t)). We must remember that the force they exert is given by: F = cE(x,t) + ex' \times B(x,t) A principle of action that represents such particle subject to the...
  5. S

    What is the Lagrangian for a Mouse on a Rotating Wheel?

    Homework Statement A mouse of mass m runs around the inner circumference of a vertical wheel which is free to rotate about the centre. The wheel has mass M and moment of inertia I. Let θ be the angle that the radius vector makes to the mouse from the downward vertical at time t. Write down the...
  6. U

    Lagrangian equation for 5 pulley Atwood Machine.

    Homework Statement Consider the Atwood’s pulley shown below. The masses are 4m, 3m, and m. Let x and y be the directed distances from the centers of the fixed (i.e. inertial) top pulleys for the left and right masses as indicated. http://imgur.com/VXEygxt a) Write down the Lagrangian...
  7. N

    How does the Klein-Gordon Lagrangian relate to the equations of motion?

    Hi, I hope I put this in the right place! I'm having trouble with some of the calculus in moving from the Klein-Gordin Lagrangian density to the equations of motion. The density is: L = \frac{1}{2}\left[ (\partial_μ\phi)(\partial^\mu \phi) - m^2\phi ^2 \right] Now, to apply the...
  8. S

    Finding Potential Energy for a Chain on Pulley System

    Hi there, I'm having some problems trying to write down the Lagrangian of the following system: A uniform flexible chain of mass M and length L is hung under gravity on a frictional pulley of radius a and moment of inertia I whose axle is fixed at a point above the ground. Write down the...
  9. J

    Sign of the time derivative of the Majorana Lagrangian

    Let \gamma^{\rho} \in M_{4}(\mathbb{R}) be the Majorana representation of the Dirac algebra (in spacetime signature \eta_{00} = -1), and consider the Majorana Lagrangian \mathcal{L} = \mathrm{i} \theta^{\mathrm{T}} \gamma^{0} (\gamma^{\rho} \partial_{\rho} - m) \theta, where \theta is a...
  10. L

    Supersymmetric Lagrangian Transformation (Grassmann Numbers)

    I've been tasked with showing that a Lagrangian under a set of transformations changes by a time derivative. All has gone well, except I'm left with two remaining terms, that I am completely confident, aren't there by mistake (as the 16 terms that should be expected have all popped out with the...
  11. G

    Which Lagrangian is correct for SR?

    Is: \mathcal L=-\frac{m}{2} u^\alpha u_\alpha a correct Lagrangian for SR (assuming the parameter is proper time rather than world time)? It leads to the correct EOM when plugged into the Euler-Lagrange equation, m\frac{du^\alpha}{ds}=0 Or is this the correct Lagrangian: \mathcal L=-m...
  12. S

    Oscillatory solution for a given Lagrangian

    Homework Statement Consider the following Lagrangian: L = \frac{m}{2}(x'^2+y'^2+z'^2) + \frac{q}{2}(xy'-yx') Where q denotes a charged particle. a) Find the equations of motion b) Find the solution for z c) Find the solution in the x-y plane, and prove that it corresponds to an oscillatory...
  13. N

    What is the Meaning of Lagrangian?

    what is Lagrangian ? the Hamiltonian H = T + V represents the total energy of the system, and Lagrangian L = T-V, but what does it actually represents and what is the exact meaning of Lagrangian ? it represents excess energy or energy loss or some thing else ?
  14. D

    MHB Lagrangian Mechanics: Solving $\mathcal{L}(X,x,\dot{X},\dot{x})$ for 2 Masses

    Write down the Lagrangian $\mathcal{L}(x_1,x_2,\dot{x}_1,\dot{x}_2)$ for two particles of equal masses, $m_1 = m_2 = m$, confined to the $x$ axis and connected by a spring with potential energy $U = \frac{1}{2}kx^2$. [Here $x$ is the extension of the spring, $x = (x_1 - x_2 - \ell)$ where $\ell$...
  15. D

    Lagrangian mech.: Action for a particle under constant force

    Homework Statement Find Scl for a particle under constant force f, that is: L = (m/2)v2 + fx Homework Equations S = ∫Ldt d(∂L/∂q^{.})/dt = ∂L/∂q The Attempt at a Solution Apologies if this belongs in the Introductory Physics section. Apologies for terrible formatting...
  16. D

    Lagrangian and lagrange equations of a system of two masses

    Homework Statement Hi guys. http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/5123/systemn.jpg The image shows the situation. A pointlike particle of mass m is free to move without friction along a horizontal line. It is connected to a spring of constant k, which is connected to the origin O. A...
  17. A

    What is the Lagrangian for a Particle in a Paraboloidal Bowl?

    Homework Statement A particle of mass m moves on the surface of a paraboloidal bowl with position given by r=rcosθi+rsinθj+\frac{r^{2}}{a}k with a>0 constant. The particle is subject to a gravitational force F=-mgk but no other external forces. Show that a suitable Lagrangian for the system is...
  18. M

    What Is a Lagrangian and How Do I Use It in Mechanics Problems?

    Homework Statement So we have started Lagrangian Mechanics in my class, and I really don't understand it at all. My teacher keeps doing the math on the board, but he hasn't really said what a Lagrangian is, and what an Action is. I really am lost from the start with these problems. Any help...
  19. R

    Lagrangian mechanics - derivation doubt.

    In the attached snip, the last few steps of the lagrangian equation is shown. I don't understand how the \frac{\delta V}{\delta\dot{q_j}}= 0. As an example let me take gravitational force. With change in velocity ( along the downwards direction obviously), there sure is a change in gravitational...
  20. D

    Why is the Hamiltonian constructed from the Lagrangian?

    I understand how to use Hamiltonian mechanics, but I never understood why you construct the Hamilitonian by first constructing the Langrangian, and then performing a Legendre transform on it. Why can't you just construct the Hamiltonian directly? Does it have to do with the generalized...
  21. S

    Proving that the free particle lagrangian is rotationally symmetric

    Homework Statement Show that the free particle lagrangian is invariant to rotations in $$\Re^{3}$$, but I assume this means invariant up to a gauge term. $$L=m/2 [\dot{R^{2}} + R^{2}\dot{θ^{2}} +R^{2}Sin^{2}(θ)\dot{\phi^{2}}$$ Homework Equations I consider an aribtrary infinitesimal...
  22. U

    Lagrangian: How did they get from this step to the other?

    Homework Statement Homework Equations The Attempt at a Solution I don't understand where the third term from the first equation of 5.192 come about.. as clearly L doesn't depend on x at all, so ∂L/∂x should be zero.
  23. S

    Lagrangian aproach.Learning materials.

    Hello.I recently discovered the Lagrangian approach on classical mechanics ptovlems, such as a spring pendullum, or even on particle physics problems, and i think it s a really smart way of getting results. I'd like to approach this method deeper and so my questions are the following: 1.What...
  24. D

    Terms in the Yang-Mills Lagrangian

    I've been doing some self-study in Peskin and Schroeder and been struggling a bit in Part III. Right now, I am stuck on the last two terms in 16.6 (Lagrangian for Yang-Mills). Presumably these come from (-1/4) (F^{a}_{\mu\nu})^2, but I am getting stuck on getting the indices to work out...
  25. A

    Question about velocity-dependent Lagrangian involving magnetic fields

    Homework Statement The Lagrange method does work for some velocity dependent Lagrangian. A very important case is a charged particle moving in a magnetic field. The magnetic field can be represented as a "curl" of a vector potential ∇B = ∇xA . A uniform magnetic field B0 corresponds to a vector...
  26. Telemachus

    Lagrangian mechanics, cone rotating over a plane

    I wanted to solve the problem of a cone rotating on its side over a table, around an axis that pass through it's apex, like in the figure. What I want to find is the angular speed ω, the spin of the solid, such that the cone "stands" over it's apex. I don't know how to set the condition...
  27. snoopies622

    Seeking derivation of real scalar field Lagrangian

    Here and there I come across the following formula for the Lagrangian density of a real scalar field, but not a deriviation. \mathcal{L} = \frac {1}{2} [ \dot \phi ^2 - ( \nabla \phi ) ^2 - (m \phi )^2 ] Could someone show me where this comes from? The m squared term in particular...
  28. B

    Integration help, Kepler's problem Lagrangian dynamics

    Homework Statement Carry out the integration ψ = ∫[M(dr/r2)] / √(2m(E-U(r)) - (M2/r2)) E = energy, U = potential, M = angular momentum using the substitution: u = 1/r for U = -α/r Homework Equations The Attempt at a Solution This is as far as I've gotten: -∫ (Mdu) /...
  29. C

    Lagrangian of Simple Pendulum with Fixed Masses and Horizontal Bar

    Homework Statement 2 masses, m_{1} and m_{2} are fixed at the endpoints of a rigid rod of length l. mass m_{1} is attached to a horizontal bar so that it may move in the x direction freely, but not in the y direction. let θ be the angle the rod makes with the vertical, what is the...
  30. A

    Physical Interpretation of point transformation invariance of the Lagrangian

    Homework Statement The problem asked us to show that the Euler-Lagrange's equations are invariant under a point transformation q_{i}=q_{i}(s_{1},...,s_{n},t), i=1...n. Give a physical interpretation. Homework Equations \frac{d}{dt}(\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{s_{j}}})=\frac{\partial...
  31. B

    Help with a mechanical lagrangian problem

    Homework Statement We are given L = 1/2mv2 - mgz. a) Find the equations of motion. b) Take x(0) [vector] = 0; v(0) [vector] = v0 [vector] ; v0z > 0 and find x(τ) [vector] and v(τ) [vector], such that z(τ) = 0;  τ≠0. c) Find S. Homework Equations Euler-Lagrange equation and...
  32. F

    Invariance of a Lagrangian under Transformation

    Homework Statement Show that the Lagrangian \mathcal{L}=\frac{m}{2}\vec{\dot{r}}^2 \, \frac{1}{(1+g \vec{r}^2)^2} is invariant under the Transformation \vec{r} \rightarrow \tilde{r}=\vec{r}+\vec{a}(1-g\vec{r}^2)+2g\vec{r}(\vec{r} \cdot \vec{a}) where b is a constant and \vec{a} are...
  33. U

    How to Treat ω in the Legendre Transform of a Lagrangian?

    Homework Statement I am given a Lagrangian, which, per assignment text, describes a single degree of freedom: L= \frac{I}{2}(\dot{q}+\omega)^2-kq^2 I need to find the Hamiltonian. Now, what I am wondering, when performing the Legrende transform...
  34. J

    Lagrangian Dynamics - Grandfather Clock?

    Homework Statement The pendulum of a grandfather clock consists of a thin rod of length L (and negligible mass) attached at its upper end to a fixed point, and attached at its lower end to a point on the edge of a uniform disk of radius R, mass M, and negligible thickness. The disk is free...
  35. M

    Understanding the Dissipative Lagrangian for Coupled Oscillators

    Hello, I run across the following Lagrangian, $$\mathcal{L} = m \dot{x}\dot{y} + \frac{1}{2} \gamma (x \dot{y} - \dot{x} y) $$ I can see how a variation with respect to $$ x, y $$ yields the (viscous) equations of motions $$ \ddot{x} + \dot{x} = 0 \quad, \quad \ddot{y} - \dot{y} = 0 $$...
  36. J

    Calculate Differential Cross Section, Amplitude from Lagrangian

    Lagrangian I have is little bit massy so I don't write in here. Like in ψψ(dagger) , or ψ∅ -> ψ∅, How can I calculate the differential cross section or total, or amplitudes?
  37. J

    Lagrangian of three bodies, using an exponential potential

    What I know: L = T - V V = e^(x1-x2) + e^(x2-x3) for n = 3 and a mass = 1 What I believe: T = .5Ʃ (x'_i)^2 from 1 to n So let's say you have three bodys that can just be considered pints masses of 1 and on the same line: x1 x2 x3 They have an...
  38. C

    Lagrangian vs. Hamiltonian in QFT

    I'm a little confused about why the Lagrangian is Lorentz invariant and the Hamiltonian is not. I keep reading that the Lagrangian is "obviously" Lorentz invariant because it's a scalar, but isn't the Hamiltonian a scalar also? I've been thinking this issue must be somewhat more complex...
  39. T

    Lagrangian density for a complex scalar field (classical)

    Hi. Let's say we have a complex scalar field \varphi and we separate it into the real and the imaginary parts: \varphi = (\varphi1 + i\varphi2) It's Lagrangian density L is given by: L = L(\varphi1) + L(\varphi1) Can you tell the argument behind the idea that in summing the densities of...
  40. T

    Help setting up a lagrangian problem NOT SOLVING IT

    Homework Statement A particle of mass m slides frictionlessly down a smooth track defined by the function y=f(x)=((-x^3)/a^2) where a is a constant with units of length. The particle is also in a uniform gravitational field. Set the lagrangian up in cartesian coordinates x and yHomework...
  41. Barnak

    Gravitation Lagrangian in classical form

    I'm trying to express the classical gravitation Einstein-Hilbert lagrangian into some nice way, and I'm having a problem. It is well known that the Einstein-Hilbert action is the following (I don't write the constant in front of the integral, to simplify things) : S_{EH} = \int R \, \sqrt{-g}...
  42. G

    Formulating lagrangian for a system

    Homework Statement http://fotozrzut.pl/zdjecia/ad3bbdd9f6.jpg Mases are as stated on the picture, I is the moment of inertia of the pulley, angle marked is ω and a is a radius. Homework Equations L=T-V The Attempt at a Solution I try to formulate a lagrangian for this system...
  43. P

    Deriving 3 Momentum & Angular Momentum Operators of Maxwell Lagrangian

    Hello, Where can I find a good explanation (book) of the derivation via Noether's theorem of the three momentum and angular momentum operators of the usual maxwell lagrangian ? Thank you!
  44. C

    Lagrangian problem of a cylinder on inclined plane.

    Homework Statement A cylinder on a inclined plane is rolling without slipping. Inclined plane is connected to wall with a spring and cylinder is connected to wall with a spring too. All frictions will be neglected, and all the given data has shown on the image below. As seen above, k2...
  45. S

    What are the generalized coordinates for the suspended rod Lagrangian?

    Homework Statement A thin rod of length 2b is suspended by 2 light strings both attached to the ceiling. Using x, y1, y2 as your generalized coordinates right down the lagrangian of the system. Where x is the longitudinal displacement of the rod and y1 and y2 are the horizontal displacements...
  46. D

    Lagrangian for Applied Torque on a Hoop with Bead

    Homework Statement I included the problem as an attachment. My difficulty lies within understanding how to account for the applied torque within the Lagrangian and subsequent Euler-Lagrange equations, which is what I want to use to determine the equations of motion of the bead on the hoop...
  47. F

    How Do You Formulate Lagrange Equations for a Mass on a Rotating Parabolic Path?

    A point of mass m, affected by gravity, is obliged to be in a vertical plan on a parabola with equation z = a.r^2 a is a constant and r is the distance between the point of mass m and the OZ vertical axis. Write the Lagrange equations in the cases that the plan of the parabola is : a) is...
  48. F

    How to Formulate Lagrangian Equations for a Horizontally Oscillating Pendulum?

    Homework Statement Write the lagrangian equations for: A simple pendulum whose suspension point oscillates horizontally in its plan according to the law x = a.cos(ωt)My problem is trying to know which are the generalized coordinates. i considered :x (θ) = a.cos(ωt) + l.sinθ y (θ) = l.cos...
  49. T

    Angular momentum in Lagrangian Mechanics

    In Newton's problem,and other central force problems in Classical Mechanics, you can get with decreasing the center of mass movement to the lagrangian: L=1/2m(r' ^2+r^2 \varphi'^2)-V(r) because \varphi is cyclic, you can write: \frac{d}{dt}(mr^2 \varphi')=0 or, defining the angular...
  50. R

    Can a 4-Potential Approximate Gravitational Field in Weak-Field Limit?

    I just read some basic concepts on General Relativity, and this idea pops up: I know we should use variations of metrics for gravitational field in the Lagrangian. But considering the resemblance of gravitational field(weak-field) to electromagnetic field, can we construct a 4-potential similar...