Lagrangian Definition and 1000 Threads

  1. L

    Question about Geodesic Equation Derivation using Lagrangian

    I'm trying to derive the Geodesic equation, \ddot{x}^{α} + {Γ}^{α}_{βγ} \dot{x}^{β} \dot{x}^{γ} = 0. However, when I take the Lagrangian to be {L} = {g}_{γβ} \dot{x}^{γ} \dot{x}^{β}, and I'm taking \frac{\partial {L}}{\partial \dot{x}^{α}}, I don't understand why the partial derivative of...
  2. D

    How to drop terms in a Lagrangian?

    Hi guys, So textbooks have it that: "Two Lagrangians differing by a total time-derivative of a function of the coordinates are equivalent". I have no idea what that means or how to use it; so I don't know which terms I can drop from Lagrangians, which is a bit of a problem. For example...
  3. S

    Prove that a given Lagrangian is not T-V (EM field)

    Homework Statement Consider a particle of mass m and electric charge e subject to a uniform electromagnetic field (E(x,t),B(x,t)). We must remember that the force they exert is given by: F = cE(x,t) + ex' \times B(x,t) A principle of action that represents such particle subject to the...
  4. S

    What is the Lagrangian for a Mouse on a Rotating Wheel?

    Homework Statement A mouse of mass m runs around the inner circumference of a vertical wheel which is free to rotate about the centre. The wheel has mass M and moment of inertia I. Let θ be the angle that the radius vector makes to the mouse from the downward vertical at time t. Write down the...
  5. U

    Lagrangian equation for 5 pulley Atwood Machine.

    Homework Statement Consider the Atwood’s pulley shown below. The masses are 4m, 3m, and m. Let x and y be the directed distances from the centers of the fixed (i.e. inertial) top pulleys for the left and right masses as indicated. http://imgur.com/VXEygxt a) Write down the Lagrangian...
  6. N

    How does the Klein-Gordon Lagrangian relate to the equations of motion?

    Hi, I hope I put this in the right place! I'm having trouble with some of the calculus in moving from the Klein-Gordin Lagrangian density to the equations of motion. The density is: L = \frac{1}{2}\left[ (\partial_μ\phi)(\partial^\mu \phi) - m^2\phi ^2 \right] Now, to apply the...
  7. S

    Finding Potential Energy for a Chain on Pulley System

    Hi there, I'm having some problems trying to write down the Lagrangian of the following system: A uniform flexible chain of mass M and length L is hung under gravity on a frictional pulley of radius a and moment of inertia I whose axle is fixed at a point above the ground. Write down the...
  8. J

    Sign of the time derivative of the Majorana Lagrangian

    Let \gamma^{\rho} \in M_{4}(\mathbb{R}) be the Majorana representation of the Dirac algebra (in spacetime signature \eta_{00} = -1), and consider the Majorana Lagrangian \mathcal{L} = \mathrm{i} \theta^{\mathrm{T}} \gamma^{0} (\gamma^{\rho} \partial_{\rho} - m) \theta, where \theta is a...
  9. L

    Supersymmetric Lagrangian Transformation (Grassmann Numbers)

    I've been tasked with showing that a Lagrangian under a set of transformations changes by a time derivative. All has gone well, except I'm left with two remaining terms, that I am completely confident, aren't there by mistake (as the 16 terms that should be expected have all popped out with the...
  10. G

    Which Lagrangian is correct for SR?

    Is: \mathcal L=-\frac{m}{2} u^\alpha u_\alpha a correct Lagrangian for SR (assuming the parameter is proper time rather than world time)? It leads to the correct EOM when plugged into the Euler-Lagrange equation, m\frac{du^\alpha}{ds}=0 Or is this the correct Lagrangian: \mathcal L=-m...
  11. S

    Oscillatory solution for a given Lagrangian

    Homework Statement Consider the following Lagrangian: L = \frac{m}{2}(x'^2+y'^2+z'^2) + \frac{q}{2}(xy'-yx') Where q denotes a charged particle. a) Find the equations of motion b) Find the solution for z c) Find the solution in the x-y plane, and prove that it corresponds to an oscillatory...
  12. N

    What is the Meaning of Lagrangian?

    what is Lagrangian ? the Hamiltonian H = T + V represents the total energy of the system, and Lagrangian L = T-V, but what does it actually represents and what is the exact meaning of Lagrangian ? it represents excess energy or energy loss or some thing else ?
  13. D

    MHB Lagrangian Mechanics: Solving $\mathcal{L}(X,x,\dot{X},\dot{x})$ for 2 Masses

    Write down the Lagrangian $\mathcal{L}(x_1,x_2,\dot{x}_1,\dot{x}_2)$ for two particles of equal masses, $m_1 = m_2 = m$, confined to the $x$ axis and connected by a spring with potential energy $U = \frac{1}{2}kx^2$. [Here $x$ is the extension of the spring, $x = (x_1 - x_2 - \ell)$ where $\ell$...
  14. D

    Lagrangian mech.: Action for a particle under constant force

    Homework Statement Find Scl for a particle under constant force f, that is: L = (m/2)v2 + fx Homework Equations S = ∫Ldt d(∂L/∂q^{.})/dt = ∂L/∂q The Attempt at a Solution Apologies if this belongs in the Introductory Physics section. Apologies for terrible formatting...
  15. D

    Lagrangian and lagrange equations of a system of two masses

    Homework Statement Hi guys. http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/5123/systemn.jpg The image shows the situation. A pointlike particle of mass m is free to move without friction along a horizontal line. It is connected to a spring of constant k, which is connected to the origin O. A...
  16. A

    What is the Lagrangian for a Particle in a Paraboloidal Bowl?

    Homework Statement A particle of mass m moves on the surface of a paraboloidal bowl with position given by r=rcosθi+rsinθj+\frac{r^{2}}{a}k with a>0 constant. The particle is subject to a gravitational force F=-mgk but no other external forces. Show that a suitable Lagrangian for the system is...
  17. M

    What Is a Lagrangian and How Do I Use It in Mechanics Problems?

    Homework Statement So we have started Lagrangian Mechanics in my class, and I really don't understand it at all. My teacher keeps doing the math on the board, but he hasn't really said what a Lagrangian is, and what an Action is. I really am lost from the start with these problems. Any help...
  18. R

    Lagrangian mechanics - derivation doubt.

    In the attached snip, the last few steps of the lagrangian equation is shown. I don't understand how the \frac{\delta V}{\delta\dot{q_j}}= 0. As an example let me take gravitational force. With change in velocity ( along the downwards direction obviously), there sure is a change in gravitational...
  19. D

    Why is the Hamiltonian constructed from the Lagrangian?

    I understand how to use Hamiltonian mechanics, but I never understood why you construct the Hamilitonian by first constructing the Langrangian, and then performing a Legendre transform on it. Why can't you just construct the Hamiltonian directly? Does it have to do with the generalized...
  20. S

    Proving that the free particle lagrangian is rotationally symmetric

    Homework Statement Show that the free particle lagrangian is invariant to rotations in $$\Re^{3}$$, but I assume this means invariant up to a gauge term. $$L=m/2 [\dot{R^{2}} + R^{2}\dot{θ^{2}} +R^{2}Sin^{2}(θ)\dot{\phi^{2}}$$ Homework Equations I consider an aribtrary infinitesimal...
  21. U

    Lagrangian: How did they get from this step to the other?

    Homework Statement Homework Equations The Attempt at a Solution I don't understand where the third term from the first equation of 5.192 come about.. as clearly L doesn't depend on x at all, so ∂L/∂x should be zero.
  22. S

    Lagrangian aproach.Learning materials.

    Hello.I recently discovered the Lagrangian approach on classical mechanics ptovlems, such as a spring pendullum, or even on particle physics problems, and i think it s a really smart way of getting results. I'd like to approach this method deeper and so my questions are the following: 1.What...
  23. D

    Terms in the Yang-Mills Lagrangian

    I've been doing some self-study in Peskin and Schroeder and been struggling a bit in Part III. Right now, I am stuck on the last two terms in 16.6 (Lagrangian for Yang-Mills). Presumably these come from (-1/4) (F^{a}_{\mu\nu})^2, but I am getting stuck on getting the indices to work out...
  24. A

    Question about velocity-dependent Lagrangian involving magnetic fields

    Homework Statement The Lagrange method does work for some velocity dependent Lagrangian. A very important case is a charged particle moving in a magnetic field. The magnetic field can be represented as a "curl" of a vector potential ∇B = ∇xA . A uniform magnetic field B0 corresponds to a vector...
  25. Telemachus

    Lagrangian mechanics, cone rotating over a plane

    I wanted to solve the problem of a cone rotating on its side over a table, around an axis that pass through it's apex, like in the figure. What I want to find is the angular speed ω, the spin of the solid, such that the cone "stands" over it's apex. I don't know how to set the condition...
  26. snoopies622

    Seeking derivation of real scalar field Lagrangian

    Here and there I come across the following formula for the Lagrangian density of a real scalar field, but not a deriviation. \mathcal{L} = \frac {1}{2} [ \dot \phi ^2 - ( \nabla \phi ) ^2 - (m \phi )^2 ] Could someone show me where this comes from? The m squared term in particular...
  27. B

    Integration help, Kepler's problem Lagrangian dynamics

    Homework Statement Carry out the integration ψ = ∫[M(dr/r2)] / √(2m(E-U(r)) - (M2/r2)) E = energy, U = potential, M = angular momentum using the substitution: u = 1/r for U = -α/r Homework Equations The Attempt at a Solution This is as far as I've gotten: -∫ (Mdu) /...
  28. C

    Lagrangian of Simple Pendulum with Fixed Masses and Horizontal Bar

    Homework Statement 2 masses, m_{1} and m_{2} are fixed at the endpoints of a rigid rod of length l. mass m_{1} is attached to a horizontal bar so that it may move in the x direction freely, but not in the y direction. let θ be the angle the rod makes with the vertical, what is the...
  29. A

    Physical Interpretation of point transformation invariance of the Lagrangian

    Homework Statement The problem asked us to show that the Euler-Lagrange's equations are invariant under a point transformation q_{i}=q_{i}(s_{1},...,s_{n},t), i=1...n. Give a physical interpretation. Homework Equations \frac{d}{dt}(\frac{\partial L}{\partial \dot{s_{j}}})=\frac{\partial...
  30. B

    Help with a mechanical lagrangian problem

    Homework Statement We are given L = 1/2mv2 - mgz. a) Find the equations of motion. b) Take x(0) [vector] = 0; v(0) [vector] = v0 [vector] ; v0z > 0 and find x(τ) [vector] and v(τ) [vector], such that z(τ) = 0;  τ≠0. c) Find S. Homework Equations Euler-Lagrange equation and...
  31. F

    Invariance of a Lagrangian under Transformation

    Homework Statement Show that the Lagrangian \mathcal{L}=\frac{m}{2}\vec{\dot{r}}^2 \, \frac{1}{(1+g \vec{r}^2)^2} is invariant under the Transformation \vec{r} \rightarrow \tilde{r}=\vec{r}+\vec{a}(1-g\vec{r}^2)+2g\vec{r}(\vec{r} \cdot \vec{a}) where b is a constant and \vec{a} are...
  32. U

    How to Treat ω in the Legendre Transform of a Lagrangian?

    Homework Statement I am given a Lagrangian, which, per assignment text, describes a single degree of freedom: L= \frac{I}{2}(\dot{q}+\omega)^2-kq^2 I need to find the Hamiltonian. Now, what I am wondering, when performing the Legrende transform...
  33. J

    Lagrangian Dynamics - Grandfather Clock?

    Homework Statement The pendulum of a grandfather clock consists of a thin rod of length L (and negligible mass) attached at its upper end to a fixed point, and attached at its lower end to a point on the edge of a uniform disk of radius R, mass M, and negligible thickness. The disk is free...
  34. M

    Understanding the Dissipative Lagrangian for Coupled Oscillators

    Hello, I run across the following Lagrangian, $$\mathcal{L} = m \dot{x}\dot{y} + \frac{1}{2} \gamma (x \dot{y} - \dot{x} y) $$ I can see how a variation with respect to $$ x, y $$ yields the (viscous) equations of motions $$ \ddot{x} + \dot{x} = 0 \quad, \quad \ddot{y} - \dot{y} = 0 $$...
  35. J

    Calculate Differential Cross Section, Amplitude from Lagrangian

    Lagrangian I have is little bit massy so I don't write in here. Like in ψψ(dagger) , or ψ∅ -> ψ∅, How can I calculate the differential cross section or total, or amplitudes?
  36. J

    Lagrangian of three bodies, using an exponential potential

    What I know: L = T - V V = e^(x1-x2) + e^(x2-x3) for n = 3 and a mass = 1 What I believe: T = .5Ʃ (x'_i)^2 from 1 to n So let's say you have three bodys that can just be considered pints masses of 1 and on the same line: x1 x2 x3 They have an...
  37. C

    Lagrangian vs. Hamiltonian in QFT

    I'm a little confused about why the Lagrangian is Lorentz invariant and the Hamiltonian is not. I keep reading that the Lagrangian is "obviously" Lorentz invariant because it's a scalar, but isn't the Hamiltonian a scalar also? I've been thinking this issue must be somewhat more complex...
  38. T

    Lagrangian density for a complex scalar field (classical)

    Hi. Let's say we have a complex scalar field \varphi and we separate it into the real and the imaginary parts: \varphi = (\varphi1 + i\varphi2) It's Lagrangian density L is given by: L = L(\varphi1) + L(\varphi1) Can you tell the argument behind the idea that in summing the densities of...
  39. T

    Help setting up a lagrangian problem NOT SOLVING IT

    Homework Statement A particle of mass m slides frictionlessly down a smooth track defined by the function y=f(x)=((-x^3)/a^2) where a is a constant with units of length. The particle is also in a uniform gravitational field. Set the lagrangian up in cartesian coordinates x and yHomework...
  40. Barnak

    Gravitation Lagrangian in classical form

    I'm trying to express the classical gravitation Einstein-Hilbert lagrangian into some nice way, and I'm having a problem. It is well known that the Einstein-Hilbert action is the following (I don't write the constant in front of the integral, to simplify things) : S_{EH} = \int R \, \sqrt{-g}...
  41. G

    Formulating lagrangian for a system

    Homework Statement http://fotozrzut.pl/zdjecia/ad3bbdd9f6.jpg Mases are as stated on the picture, I is the moment of inertia of the pulley, angle marked is ω and a is a radius. Homework Equations L=T-V The Attempt at a Solution I try to formulate a lagrangian for this system...
  42. P

    Deriving 3 Momentum & Angular Momentum Operators of Maxwell Lagrangian

    Hello, Where can I find a good explanation (book) of the derivation via Noether's theorem of the three momentum and angular momentum operators of the usual maxwell lagrangian ? Thank you!
  43. C

    Lagrangian problem of a cylinder on inclined plane.

    Homework Statement A cylinder on a inclined plane is rolling without slipping. Inclined plane is connected to wall with a spring and cylinder is connected to wall with a spring too. All frictions will be neglected, and all the given data has shown on the image below. As seen above, k2...
  44. S

    What are the generalized coordinates for the suspended rod Lagrangian?

    Homework Statement A thin rod of length 2b is suspended by 2 light strings both attached to the ceiling. Using x, y1, y2 as your generalized coordinates right down the lagrangian of the system. Where x is the longitudinal displacement of the rod and y1 and y2 are the horizontal displacements...
  45. D

    Lagrangian for Applied Torque on a Hoop with Bead

    Homework Statement I included the problem as an attachment. My difficulty lies within understanding how to account for the applied torque within the Lagrangian and subsequent Euler-Lagrange equations, which is what I want to use to determine the equations of motion of the bead on the hoop...
  46. F

    How Do You Formulate Lagrange Equations for a Mass on a Rotating Parabolic Path?

    A point of mass m, affected by gravity, is obliged to be in a vertical plan on a parabola with equation z = a.r^2 a is a constant and r is the distance between the point of mass m and the OZ vertical axis. Write the Lagrange equations in the cases that the plan of the parabola is : a) is...
  47. F

    How to Formulate Lagrangian Equations for a Horizontally Oscillating Pendulum?

    Homework Statement Write the lagrangian equations for: A simple pendulum whose suspension point oscillates horizontally in its plan according to the law x = a.cos(ωt)My problem is trying to know which are the generalized coordinates. i considered :x (θ) = a.cos(ωt) + l.sinθ y (θ) = l.cos...
  48. T

    Angular momentum in Lagrangian Mechanics

    In Newton's problem,and other central force problems in Classical Mechanics, you can get with decreasing the center of mass movement to the lagrangian: L=1/2m(r' ^2+r^2 \varphi'^2)-V(r) because \varphi is cyclic, you can write: \frac{d}{dt}(mr^2 \varphi')=0 or, defining the angular...
  49. R

    Can a 4-Potential Approximate Gravitational Field in Weak-Field Limit?

    I just read some basic concepts on General Relativity, and this idea pops up: I know we should use variations of metrics for gravitational field in the Lagrangian. But considering the resemblance of gravitational field(weak-field) to electromagnetic field, can we construct a 4-potential similar...
  50. E

    Lagrangian visualisation and Uncertainty Principle

    Probably, the essence of quantum theory (QT) is principle of uncertainty (HUP). The essence of QT is also the fact that Fourier transformation of wave function in phase(?) space gives wave function in momentum space. If one wave function is Gaussian (and so both ones) this gives HUP. Very...
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