Polar molecule in electric field

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of gas dipole molecules when subjected to an external electric field. Participants explore various potential responses of the molecules, including alignment, oscillation, and the effects of thermal energy and collisions. The scope includes theoretical considerations and implications of molecular orientation in electric fields.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the dipole will align with the electric field vector and maintain that orientation, suggesting that option (a) is a reasonable answer.
  • Others argue that the dipole may oscillate around the field direction, akin to a pendulum, indicating that option (b) could also be valid under certain conditions.
  • There is a suggestion that thermal fluctuations will affect the dipole's orientation, complicating its behavior in the electric field.
  • A participant raises a question about the mechanism providing damping to the oscillations, speculating whether it relates to electromagnetic radiation from oscillating charges.
  • Another participant mentions that the polarization of the dipole will be thermalized due to collisions, with a probability of polarization along the field described by an exponential function involving dipole moment and temperature.
  • One participant discusses a classical approximation for the maximum rotation angle of a dipole in an electric field, relating it to thermal energy and dipole moment.
  • There is a consideration of how the strength of the electric field influences the behavior of the dipole, with different scenarios outlined depending on the relationship between potential energy and thermal energy.
  • A follow-up question is posed regarding the thermodynamic consequences of applying a high voltage, specifically whether the electric field does net work on the molecules and its effects on temperature and pressure.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express varying views on the behavior of dipole molecules in an electric field, with no consensus reached on which option (a, b, c, or d) is definitively correct. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the precise effects and mechanisms involved.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on the strength of the electric field, the assumptions regarding thermal energy, and the complexity of molecular interactions that may not be fully addressed in the discussion.

ael65
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what happens to gas dipole molecule when electric field E is turn on ?
a) is going to rotate to lined up with vector E and stay like that ?
b) is going to oscilate, like pendulum, pointing on average toward E ?
c) none of the above.
d) is every collision going to flip molecule unpredictible, or it maintain it's orientation with respect to E ?

-ael
 
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ael65 said:
what happens to gas dipole molecule when electric field E is turn on ?
a) is going to rotate to lined up with vector E and stay like that ?
b) is going to oscilate, like pendulum, pointing on average toward E ?
c) none of the above.
d) is every collision going to flip molecule unpredictible, or it maintain it's orientation with respect to E ?

-ael

since it's a gas you can think of one atom at a time, and there is a means of maintaining equilibrium apparently, so the dipole will line up with the field (there is some "damping" to get rid of mechanics oscillations such as in option "b" above). There should be thermal fluctuations of the dipole away from the field direction tho. Thus answer "a" is fairly correct (moreso than b or d).
 
what mechanism is providing a "dumping" ?
Is this EM radiation from oscilating charge ?

-ael
 
probably something like that.
 
ael65 said:
what happens to gas dipole molecule when electric field E is turn on ?
a) is going to rotate to lined up with vector E and stay like that ?
b) is going to oscilate, like pendulum, pointing on average toward E ?
c) none of the above.
d) is every collision going to flip molecule unpredictible, or it maintain it's orientation with respect to E ?

-ael
Due to collisions, the polarization will be thermalized.
The probability of polarization along the field will be ~exp(p.E/kT).
 
Thx Meir,

I already found article on "STARK EFFECTS ON RIGID ROTOR WAVEFUNCTIONS" which explained how probability of molecule orientation will depend on kinetic energy, dipole moment and strength of electric field. There are QM states to be considered, but simple classical approximation can be obtained based on:

<max rotation angle> ~= arccos( <1 axis thermal energy ~ 0.5kT> / <dipole moment> * E)

I also tried to find an apprximate strength of the E field to force a molecule of cyanamide (long polar molecule) to limit its rotation to +-15deg. I got something like 150V/um at room temp. This is 50 times more then voltage causing air breakage.
 
The deciding factor will be the strength of the electric field .
If the potential energy of the dipole molecule in the electric field is very much grater than the thermal energy of the molecule,then option (a) is your answer.
If the potential energy of the dipole molecule in the electric field is comparable to the thermal energy of the molecule,then option (b) is your answer.
If the potential energy of the dipole molecule in the electric field is less than the thermal energy of the molecule,then option (d-unpredictability) is your answer.

mail me if anyone doesnot stand to this explanation.
 
A followup question...

If one applies a sufficiently high voltage to change rotation to pendular motion about the electric field axis, what are the thermodynamic consequences? IE:

1) does the electric field do net work on the molecules?
2) if yes, a) how much and b) does the energy go end up in increased translational energy resulting in higher temperature/pressure?

Thanks
 

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